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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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Thanks.
And for the record, Conservatism itself isn't the problem.
There are a lot of good conservative ideas, just as there are a lot of good liberal ones.
The problem is the manner in which the conservative agenda is being pushed, and the intensity with which the current administration seems to want to bring back the society of the 1880's and 90's.
The problem is, we've BEEN down that road before.
It was no good then, and it won't be any good now.
This latest nonsense with letting corporations renig on their benefits promises to retired workers is just the latest example.
Those benefits are a part of an employee's compensation. That is, the price the employer AGREED TO PAY when they hired said workers. Oftentimes, employers point to their benefits as a means of offsetting a lower-than-average salary, thusly: Well Bob, it's true that we don't pay quite as much as the company down the road, but just LOOK at this generous retirement plan!"
Only to pull the rug out from under him after he's put in his twenty or thirty years of service.
And this is progress?
To paraphrase a fellow Apolyton poster who has been long missing from our ranks, "...and that, my friends, sucks goat azz...."
-=Vel=-
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Thanks.
And for the record, Conservatism itself isn't the problem.
There are a lot of good conservative ideas, just as there are a lot of good liberal ones.
The problem is the manner in which the conservative agenda is being pushed, and the intensity with which the current administration seems to want to bring back the society of the 1880's and 90's.
The problem is, we've BEEN down that road before.
It was no good then, and it won't be any good now.
This latest nonsense with letting corporations renig on their benefits promises to retired workers is just the latest example.
Those benefits are a part of an employee's compensation. That is, the price the employer AGREED TO PAY when they hired said workers. Oftentimes, employers point to their benefits as a means of offsetting a lower-than-average salary, thusly: Well Bob, it's true that we don't pay quite as much as the company down the road, but just LOOK at this generous retirement plan!"
Only to pull the rug out from under him after he's put in his twenty or thirty years of service.
And this is progress?
To paraphrase a fellow Apolyton poster who has been long missing from our ranks, "...and that, my friends, sucks goat azz...."
-=Vel=- |
So you still believe that wealthy, elite conservatives have the best interest of the middle class and working class at heart??
that's nice
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Dr Strangelove
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We need to seize the hourglass of government and set it right side up.
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aneeshm
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Indore , Madhya Pradesh
Jul 2001
time: 10:50
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Vel , I'm a capitalist , and I have to say this :  .
I see government bias towards or against anything as immoral - "anything" here includes workers , unions , corporations , communities , races , sexual orientations , genders , religions , sects , and so on .
In the case of United , the corporation was clearly at fault , though it is unfortunate that not much could be done about it . The pension plans , however , should not have been summarily cut without any compensation , as they were in this case . **** happens , but that doesn't mean you have to try to make it worse , as they did .
Here , the government did not carry out its legitimate function - to enforce the contract the company had with the workers . Thus , this is a bias towards the corporation ( or against the workers ) , and I condemn it as such .
However , I doubt Bush has anything much to do with this decision . As you said , he's too dumb ( relatively) , and can be controlled too easily . And this case has been going on since 1989 , IIRC , so this has been brewing for a long time - Bush just happened to be in the room when then **** hit the fan .
And in this case , again , the Unions make the thing much worse . So you can't really attach blame to any one entity here .
About the terrorism part :
The US seems to be paying the price for years of interventionist policies everywhere . I'm not saying that the policies weren't necessary , just that their inevitable result would is ( and has to be ) this . You seem to have no idea how people in countries affected by terrorism lived till now , didn't you ?
Imagine that since the day you were born , since the day you could read , every day , each day , whenever you pick up the paper , some article is always about terrorism on your soil , and how many people have been killed in attack X . And that it was found that the money for this came from US coffers . Imagine being in a constant state of semi-war with a neighbour who has the support of the USA . Imagine being surrounded by three hostile powers ( Pakistan , China , and now , apparently , Bangladesh ) . Imagine having sanctions imposed on you by the USA when you try to develop nuclear weapons to defend yourself against nuclear neighbours ( or when you try to do something the US doesn't want ) . Now imagine that , against all odds , you make it out of a socialist quagmire and try to compete in a free market – and promptly have the USA impose protectionist policies about whichever area you are good at ( agriculture , IT grunt work , textiles , etc. ) . This behaviour is uncapitalist , and the double standards are what get to most people .
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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Feeling better this morning...was just down in the dumps about all the shite that's hitting the fan all at once.
I know that SOME of the stuff we're seeing now (like the pension case) has been brewing up for a long time, but its resolution now, coupled with the administration's current stance....well...they just go hand in hand. These types of resolutions play PERFECTLY with the new bankruptcy laws, cuts to various benefits for the rank and file (again, no mention of paycuts for the congress, or doing away with THEIR pension plans)....it numbs the mind how blatant and obvious these folks are, and the Jesus Freaks and Uber Conservatives (and let's face it, the very wealthy, who reap enormous benefits from the recent moves) LOVE it....even the poorer folks in the abovementioned categories who are getting SCREWED by the admin's policies are positively screaming for more.
I don't get it.
The nation revealing its masochistic tendencies, perhaps?
And, when the dust settles, the conservatives have nowhere to hide. Libs aren't in power....at all, which means that there's no one else to blame. It should be interesting to see what the feeding frenzy looks like when the fit starts hitting the shan.
-=Vel=-
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17-05-2005 05:09
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