17-05-2005 21:40									#1
	Do you think fleeing from your countries draft is immoral? Enter the AD-FREE zone

If you are in a country and it goes to war and a draft begins....

You are Joe Average Consumer and you are drafted.

The purpose of a state is to uphold the rights of the citizens, if you do not want to go to war, are your rights being trampled?

Is it immoral to flee the country to avoid a draft you do not agree with?

	17-05-2005 21:46									#2
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Not immoral whatsoever...I most certainly would not give my life for a conflict I do not agree with...

	17-05-2005 21:48									#3
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Yes, it is immoral to enjoy the comforts of safety but to evade your civic duty.

	17-05-2005 21:50									#4
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Civic duty? To kill the other country's people who are in exactly the same boat and being manipulated by those with power. Throwing your life down does waaaay beyond civic duty...

	17-05-2005 21:54									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Yes, it is immoral to enjoy the comforts of safety but to evade your civic duty.

I'm not sure how the "don't ask, don't tell" policy demands that ALL citizens perform their duty.

	17-05-2005 21:55									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Not immoral whatsoever...I most certainly would not give my life for a conflict I do not agree with...

	17-05-2005 21:56									#7
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I would avoid the draft if I felt that the war was immoral. If I felt that the war was right, then I would go.

	17-05-2005 21:57									#8
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I wonder what the best way to dodge the draft as an American is.... Canada will send you back, but how do you get to a sympathetic country in Europe?

	17-05-2005 21:58									#9
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You could go to Mexico

	17-05-2005 21:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I wonder what the best way to dodge the draft as an American is.... Canada will send you back

Maybe. Not necessarily.

	17-05-2005 21:59									#11
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If it was a war we strongly disagreed with then we might let draft-dodgers stay.

	17-05-2005 22:02									#12
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I personally find it immoral, but I also recognize there are no absolute answers when it comes to morals.

	17-05-2005 22:07									#13
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Yes, fleeing from the draft is dishonorable. Declaring yourself a conscientious objector is the way to go about this while preserving your honor.

	17-05-2005 22:15									#14
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Depends on the war involved. Would anyone really think badly of a young German who dodged his draft during WW2 out of an opposition to what his country was doing?

	17-05-2005 22:18									#15
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On it's own, and taken out of the context of the general ethical value of the war, fleeing the draft, and/or conscription is unethical. It can be vastly offset and compensated by the ethical value of the war itself. What I mean is that dodging the allied draft is evil, while dodging the Nazi one is ok.

	17-05-2005 22:29									#16
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That is also a case of 'to the victor the spoils of war' too...

	17-05-2005 22:29									#17
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huh?

	17-05-2005 22:36									#18
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quote: huh?

If the Germans had won, it'd likely be viewed the other way around today in a number of countries.

	17-05-2005 22:38									#19
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the fact that it would be "viewed" wouldn't change the fact that something is ethical or unethical. That's just relativist talk.

	17-05-2005 22:41									#20
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Depends what kind of a war it is. Is it all out defend your countrymen type of thing? then it is immoral to flee. It is the same as leaving your friends back when it would matter the most to stay and fight. Desperate situation, no way out? Doesn't matter. It's the principle of the thing. IF you are not willing to die for anything, then you don't deserve to live IMO.

Is it a war where you are drafted to go to another country, you might get killed, and the safety of your fellow countrymen is not a question? This case, I'm not sure. MAYBE I wouldn't say it's IMMORAL. Then again, if you are part of the army, in reserves, and you flee, then it's immoral because you have made a deal. But if you are drafted.. I don't know. Again, depends on the war more, the whole situation, but I would say there might be scenarios where fleeing your country would be a .. a decision, and not SO immoral as in other cases.

	17-05-2005 22:43									#21
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I didn't say I agreed with it, I just suggested that it's a factor that would play a role historically, whereas it wouldn't (obviously) for the individual who decided to avoid the draft.

	17-05-2005 22:50									#22
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Oh, and speaking about "relativist", I notice you were the one to introduce a distinction between dodging for the Allies and the Germans.

	17-05-2005 22:51									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Oh, and speaking about "relativist" talk, you were the one to introduce a distinction between dodging for the Allies and the Germans.

You have no idea what moral relativism is, do you?

A moral relativist would view those acts as morally equivalent by definition.

	17-05-2005 22:53									#24
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=relativism

quote: rel·a·tiv·ism Audio pronunciation of "relativism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-t-vzm) n. Philosophy A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them.

	17-05-2005 22:53									#25
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It depends on the morality of the war. If the war is wrong, then it is immoral not to evade the draft.

	17-05-2005 22:54									#26
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You got me, but I didn't pretend to know moral relativism. What Az said just struck me as sounding somewhat relativist, which is why I applied the citation thingies.

	17-05-2005 23:01									#27
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If there was a draft to fight the war in Iraq, dodging would be the only moral option.

	17-05-2005 23:04									#28
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That's only true if the war is immoral. So far, I am still not certain.

	17-05-2005 23:06									#29
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The war is immoral. Any war you have to lie in order to start is immoral on its face.

	17-05-2005 23:07									#30
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that the war was immoral.

I think it's a close call either way.

I think it was fairly obviously a dumb idea for the US to do it (in terms of their own self-interest).

If I was American and it came to that then I would probably decide to let myself be drafted, especially now that the only moral thing for the US to do is to stay in Iraq until it can stand on its own.