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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
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Jesus Christ, that movie was loud! 
More irritating was the fact that the 4 year-old who sat in the seat prior to me apparently urinated all over it - something I didn't discover until about halfway through the movie.
It was OK. Better than the prior two movies, but not as good as the first three - but then, I'm not a kid anymore and I pretty much knew what to expect.
One thing that I don't really feel in regards to the newest Star Wars movies is a sense of scope, of scale, of vastness. Obi Wan goes to look for Robot Bad Guy, hops in his little one-man spaceship, and finds him the first place he lands. It had the feel of a wife finding her drunken husband at the nearest bar to home. The opening battle, with tens of lives and trillions of dollars of capital equipment being destroyed every minute for the simple purpose of saving one person, was so irrelevant that it wasn't even referred to for the rest of the movie. You'd think somebody would mourn the Jedi lost in the effort to save the Chancellor.
However, I did come away very impressed with Ewan McGregor. Not only did he have the thankless task to play a role made famous by Sir Alec Guiness, he had to do so in a way that was reminiscent of him - and regardless of the vast continuity flaws that exist in the SW universe (see my previous post about Vaders thoughts), he, at least, kept up his part of the bargain.
Score: 7/10. And I'm being charitable.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
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9 million only? That's a small fraction of the pop of the world...
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
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I'm watching the deleted scenes from episode 2 and Padme is WAY too leftist.
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
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I watched the movies starting with the ep IV re-release in 1981. I certainly remember the episode numerals in the crawl and speculating with my grade school friends as to why the series didn't start with 'episode I'. I think way back then we speculated that it meant there would be 3 prequels but we had no idea we would have to wait 20 years to see them or that when finally released, the first two would (relatively speaking) seem to suck so badly.
It was not until the 90's re-release of eps IV through VI at the very earliest that I first remember being corrected when I would call ep IV simply "Star Wars" by the pedantic super fans among those now grown up aforementioned grade school friends. They would claim that the movie's proper name was "A New Hope" and I am not at all surprised to see that silly but familier debate repeated here.
The conclusion I took from those debates was that yes, in super fan circles it has almost always been called "A New Hope" or "episode IV" certainly as early as the original release of the empire strikes back. However I think these fans were exclusively the ones who had read all the novelizations and knew every last bit of trivia about the movies.
I think the episode IV or ANH desginations were always there in super fandom usage but they only became widely used when TPM was going to be released.
Bottom line, the episode IV a New Hope designation has been with the movie at least since ESB re-release but only as a bit of mysterious trivia from the crawl.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Who says they are participating in heated discussions? A casual watcher of Star Wars can't pick his favorite movie in Kaak's poll? |
I'm still waiting to hear how Kaak's thread (which had the participation of, oh, six people or so when you cited it) is in any way relevant to this argument. Tubes already pointed out why it isn't. 
quote:
Cause NO ONE has complained about his usage. Everyone has treated it as normal. |
This in no way validates the claim you have that everyone knows/refers to the 1977 film as Ep 4 or ANH. All it shows is that a few people participated in an online thread in which the titling of the movies wasn't even an issue. What is your point?
quote:
quote:
The issue is, do most people out there in the real world know the first movie as "Star Wars" or as "Ep 4" or "ANH." |
No, that isn't the issue. The issue is what do most people call the first movie when discussing the entire body of movies and how do they differentiate it. |
Uh, no...that's you're current goal-post moving attempt to weasel out of the corner you're in. The issue that I clearly stated from the outset is that most people refer to the original film as "Star Wars." If clarification is needed, most will say "The original one" or "the first one." Only a minority of people who are fans of the series will talk about episode number or ANH. So far, I've demonstrated this ably and you've been completely unable to offer counterevidence.
quote:
You said back on page 3 that most people think of the first movie as "Star Wars", period! Ie, they don't have any idea of it being "Episode 4" in the series (hard to believe since everyone I know has called a Star Wars movie "Episode X" at least once). |
First, I didn't post anything on page 3. It was page 4.  Second your Argument from Incredulity holds little water in the face of the fact that your experiences aren't universal, and you've yet to provide a shred of evidence other than personal testimony (which I find no reason to believe) for your silly claims. I reitierate: All you're providing for an argument is "No it isn't!"
That you've heard everyone you know call "a Star Wars movie" by the episode number isn't hard to imagine, since Ep 1-3 have explicitley been branded as such. But we're not talking about them, we're talking about the 1977 film, which until 2000 has never, ever been marketed by episode number or ANH, and which I grew up calling simply "Star Wars," as did everyone else, and this was supported by movie listings, TV Guide listings, merchandising, posters, toys, etc.
quote:
HELLO, the crawl perhaps? As JohnT said, he was 'shocked' that the episode number came up in ESB. If he remembers it with such surprise, don't you think other people do as well? |
JohnT is an UBERFAN, as he himself readily says. How many times to we have to go over that this isn't about what the uberfans think, it's about the population at large. The fact that JohnT IS an Uberfan and disagrees with you should make you reconsider using this as support.
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Of course the crawl is important! In the serial nature that Lucas had in mind, that was the title of the episode in the grand space opera. People wondered what came before and after. In the mid 90s people were wanting Lucas to complete his master plan and do 1, 2, 3 and 7, 8, 9. Of course Lucas says he's going to stop with 3, but that doesn't mean that people didn't know about the trilogy of trilogies back then. |
Important to FANS, yes. Imran, here's a reality check for you: Of all the people who have seen Star Wars, most have only seen it once. Most haven't seen all the movies. This is why I mentioned your fantasy land: you think everyone has viewed them like you and your buddies have. That's simply not the case.
So no, these people aren't going to give a rat's ass about what's in the crawl beyong the 20 seconds it takes to read it and get the background story. They aren't going to remember from 5 seconds of text the episode number or the ANH title, since for 20+ years the film has only been marketed and branded as "Star Wars."
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And sometimes when distinguishing between films, people would refer to episode numbers instead of names. |
Sometimes, yes, FANS would. But MOST people wouldn't, because MOST people aren't sans life enough to delve into the minutae of SW to take 5 seconds of a crawl to heart despite having the movie branded to them as "Star Wars" for 20 years.
quote:
I ask you the same thing I asked JohnT. How did changing the copyright, MAGICALLY make everyone change what they called the movies? You've admitted, at least, that after TPM people called the movies by episode number. Was the movie filled with brainwashing magic? |
Check out movie guides. I have the Leonard Maltin one right here from 1995 (edited, had the wrong year). It doesn't even MENTION Episode numbers for any of them or ANH. I also have his 2004 guide, which still lists it just as "Star Wars," but adds at the bottom that it was retitled Ep4, ANH. Why would it not have this in 1995, but has it in 2004? Could it be because the official retitling prompted entertainment sources like movie guides to add the titles? And that, in turn, insured more people would see the episode numbers and titles for the original films?
Here's a quote from a film critic:
http://www.manchester.com/whatson/cinemas/starwars.php
quote:
The pressure may be different, as Revenge of the Sith is guaranteed to be a huge hit in terms of making money, which A New Hope (as we now have to call it) was certainly not. |
The point JohnT was making was that after Lucas changed the titles, there began an official rebranding of the original movies by episode numbers by Lucasfilms. Hence the 2004 DVD release with the numbers. This was done to keep consistency with the prequels.
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I mean what 'proof' is it when the argument is that people use episode numbers today to refer to the movies because Lucas changed the copyright, which 99% of people do not know! How did that magically change what people called the movies? |
I'm still waiting for just a shred of proof from you that supports your claim that most people know the 1977 film Star Wars as "Episode 4" or "A New Hope." You've offered nothing but bald assertions and claims that we can't verify that everyone you know agrees (which wouldn't matter even if true, since everyone you know is hardly a representative sample of the population of everyone who has seen Star Wars).
Meanwhile, you've got most people here saying you're wrong, you've got the fact that all the major movie sites only refer to it as "Star Wars," relegating ep # and ANH to subtitle status, and that all the branding, including posters, trailers, box sets of tapes, etc. only refer to it as "Star Wars," that all the memorabilia and toys and such pre-TPM just call it "Star Wars." I'll even provide a wikipedia quote for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_W..._New_Hope#Title
quote:
However, the film is still known as "Star Wars" to most people, though Star Wars fans often refer to it as "A New Hope." Up until the 2004 DVD release, the picture was even advertised simply as "Star Wars." |
So far I've provided infinitely more support for my position than you have (it's not hard to beat 0, though). Until you provide something other than saying "no it isn't!" there isn't much point in discussing this further. Especially since you seem fit to tell people who have been fans of the movie since it came out that down is up and left is right.
The great irony is that on page 4 you responded to me by saying:
quote:
Got a cite to back that claim up |
This is intensely amusing, as to date you've not provided a single cite to back up your claim, whereas I have. Hypocrite much?
Last edited by Boris Godunov on 23-05-2005 at 05:38
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22-05-2005 03:35
)
The only thing that has any value in the movie is Yoda kicking the ass of all and sundry 
Otherwise a tremendous waste of my time and money. 
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