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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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The New York Times has obtained a US army report that tells how American soldiers beat to death two prisoners and tortured numerous others in Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/i...artner=homepage
The behaviour of the US soliders and officers are truely disgusting.
Yeah, I know a lot of Americans here will try to make excuses, but it won't cut no water. What the American soldiers did was deadly torture, plain and simple. And then the brass tried to cover it up.
It's sickening.
What happened to you America? You should be, and could be a shining example of democracy, but instead you lower yourself to the likes of Saddam, Myanmar and China.
Bringing freedom to the world, Bull ****
If Americans have any decency then they should be ashamed of what happened and demand justice.
Just look at some of the crimes committed by U.S. soldiers.
- "He screamed out, 'Allah! Allah! Allah!' and my first reaction was that he was crying out to his god," Specialist Jones said to investigators. "Everybody heard him cry out and thought it was funny."
"Other Third Platoon M.P.'s later came by the detention center and stopped at the isolation cells to see for themselves, Specialist Jones said.
"It became a kind of running joke, and people kept showing up to give this detainee a common peroneal strike just to hear him scream out 'Allah,' " he said. "It went on over a 24-hour period, and I would think that it was over 100 strikes."
- "They stood him up, and at one point Selena stepped on his bare foot with her boot and grabbed him by his beard and pulled him towards her," he went on. "Once Selena kicked Dilawar in the groin, private areas, with her right foot. She was standing some distance from him, and she stepped back and kicked him."
- One of the coroners later translated the assessment at a pre-trial hearing for Specialist Brand, saying the tissue in the young man's legs "had basically been pulpified."
"I've seen similar injuries in an individual run over by a bus," added Lt. Col. Elizabeth Rouse, the coroner, and a major at that time.
- there was probable cause to charge 27 officers and enlisted personnel with criminal offenses... So far, only the seven soldiers have been charged, including four last week.
- A cover up by senior officers: "Two months after those autopsies[that clearly indicated the men had been beaten to death], the American commander in Afghanistan, then-Lt. Gen. Daniel K. McNeill, said he had no indication that abuse by soldiers had contributed to the two deaths."
- Soldiers claiming they did not receive training to tell them they should not beat people to death.
- Another soldier told investigators that Sergeant Loring lightheartedly referred to Specialist Corsetti, then 23, as "the King of Torture."
- Beating up the mentally disturbed: "Some of the same M.P.'s took a particular interest in an emotionally disturbed Afghan detainee who was known to eat his feces and mutilate himself with concertina wire. The soldiers kneed the man repeatedly in the legs and, at one point, chained him with his arms straight up in the air."
- When the detainees were beaten or kicked for "noncompliance," one of the interpreters, Ali M. Baryalai said, it was often "because they have no idea what the M.P. is saying."
- One M.P. said he had given him five peroneal strikes for being "noncompliant and combative." Another gave him three or four more for being "combative and noncompliant." Some guards later asserted that he had been hurt trying to escape.
- "It looked like he had been dead for a while, and it looked like nobody cared," the medic, Staff Sgt. Rodney D. Glass, recalled.
- Mr. Habibullah's [a prisoner] autopsy, completed on Dec. 8, showed bruises or abrasions on his chest, arms and head. There were deep contusions on his calves, knees and thighs. His left calf was marked by what appeared to have been the sole of a boot.
- In interviews after their release, the men described their treatment at Bagram as far worse than at Guantánamo. While all of them said they had been beaten, they complained most bitterly of being stripped naked in front of female soldiers for showers and medical examinations, which they said included the first of several painful and humiliating rectal exams.
- "In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning."
Shame on you America, shame on you.
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Jon Miller
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hmm
I thought it was the germans who were into BFSM
America's Army, training Dominatrixes since 1977
Jon miller
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why should I be ashamed of Oerdin? Do you know something about him I don't? |
Do you not see how these scum have sullied the good work done by people like Oerdin, MTG, TCO, Lancer, and others who I have every reason to believe have served their country with honour.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Tingkai
So far, only the seven soldiers have been charged, including four last week.
Theres the difference. |
But there was probable cause to charge 27 officers and enlisted personnel .
How many of those who were charged are ordinary soldier? How many are officers?
The US military has a shameful record of punishing the low ranking soliders while the brass goes free.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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Until these criminals are brought to justice, the U.S. military has no honour.
We had a similar problem in the Canadian military, much to my shame. The criminals were put on trial. the guilty were thrown in jail. And the regiment involved was disbanded.
Even then, I'm still ashamed about what the Canadian Airborne did in Somalia.
Are you ashamed of what your soldiers have done?Will you demand that justice be done?
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
As for officers, when there is EVIDENCE against officers, they should be charged. |
We have evidence against the officers:
"Two months after those autopsies[that clearly indicated the men had been beaten to death], the American commander in Afghanistan, then-Lt. Gen. Daniel K. McNeill, said he had no indication that abuse by soldiers had contributed to the two deaths."
That alone is conduct unbecoming of an officer. McNeil should be court martialed and kicked out of the military. That would send a clear signal that the U.S. military does not tolerate the covering up of crimes.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Tingkai,
If you're looking for outrage, you're not going to find it.
I am personally outraged but the American public as a whole is apathetic towards things like this.
It's about as sick as cutting people's heads off on tv, but people don't really give a damn. Sad really.
That damn memo that Alberto Gonzales drafted to the President is responsible for all of this. |
I think you're right, but I wish it wasn't true.
My god, the US is the most powerful country in the world and its founding principles are of freedom, democracy and justice.
This is what pisses me off so much. Most Americans I know are decent people. They believe and have what most people in the world would cherish as true and valuable. And then the US government squanders and abuses this greatness.
Imagine how much better the world would be if the US government truly stood and supported freedom, democracy and justice.
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DerSchwarzfalke
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Does being born and raised in America somehow make one immune to human nature? No, it does not, and no one claims that it does. The soldiers in question have done what soldiers throughout history have done and will continue to do. Is it a shame? Yes, a massive one. Should those involved be punished? Heavily. But should the United States and its armed forces be specifically held accountable? Not unless you are willing to condemn humanity as a whole.
The only argument I make here is that our government has put its soldiers in positions to do great wrongs. If only it didn't have to be so ...
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
McNeil was in charge of the entire operation in Afghanistan. Its quite possible that he never saw the autopsy results. That you take this as proof of a criminal offense, with no further information, is merely evidence of your OWN lynch mob mentality, and lack of respect for the rule of law. |
No. Rank has its privileges and its obligations.
There was a time in the US military when officers in charge took responsibility for what happened on their watch, even if they did not know about it -- the logic being that the commanders should know when major FU happen. The buck stops here.
I have known officers like that, and those were the officers who commanded great respect, not because of their rank, but because of their deportment. And then there were the officers who always tried to duck the difficult decisions, the ones who ignored obvious problems.
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20-05-2005 22:26
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