10-06-2005 00:48									#121
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 By the way, I just rememberred to allow Cannons to be upgraded to that Serbian wunderwaffe.

help an iggorant Yankee pls

What is a wunderwaffe?

	10-06-2005 00:48									#122
	Support Apolyton

Thanks!


Wunderwaffe = wonder weapon

Not all that different.

	10-06-2005 00:54									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Ljube Thanks! Wunderwaffe = wonder weapon Not all that different.

So a cannon=artillery

WWI had artillery so this would have additional range or hps correct?

	10-06-2005 01:04									#124
	Increase Your PM Length

OK, I can move my units now. The test is successful. Paddy doesn't need a special cavalry. I'd trade a special cavalry for conquistadors any time. Perhaps you can increase their attack to 4.

Please, do change ottomans from religious into something else. I see Serbian Battery in the list of units, but I don't know what the stats are. I hope it's normal artillery + 70 shields + lethal land bomb + can upgrade canon to Serbian Battery.
Thanks!

Now let's start the game.

	10-06-2005 01:28									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Ljube OK, I can move my units now. The test is successful. Paddy doesn't need a special cavalry. I'd trade a special cavalry for conquistadors any time. Perhaps you can increase their attack to 4. Please, do change ottomans from religious into something else. I see Serbian Battery in the list of units, but I don't know what the stats are. I hope it's normal artillery + 70 shields + lethal land bomb + can upgrade canon to Serbian Battery. Thanks! Now let's start the game.

Great work



turn on folks

	10-06-2005 01:34									#126
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll So a cannon=artillery WWI had artillery so this would have additional range or hps correct?

You have standard Cannons, and standard Artillery, as you know them from SP games (if you ever played one ).

Artillery is pretty powerful here, as most "Tanks" have a whooping 1 movement point, so they will not be very effective blitzing anything, ever. Later there is advanced, very powerful, very expensive artillery called Howitzers. I am no expert on WW I, but I know bombing things dead with shells will be very important in this game.

Starting the game now. Wait for it.

By the way, I left the Conquistador as Spain's UU, just gave it +1 attack over the standard value.

EDIT: Save sent.

	10-06-2005 01:42									#127
	Inflate your Upload Space

sheers

thanks for all the hardwork

	10-06-2005 02:52									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

works great

June 1914 to Masuro

	10-06-2005 02:53									#129
	Got spare money?

Changing the Ottoaman empire's Relgious traight

Republic isn't in this game and neither is Democracy.

It's two turn anarchy for religious civs, not one.

I think the standard Spahi as the UU is fine for the Ottomans.

quote: Originally posted by Ljube Also, the ottomans are the only religious civ so they are the only civ which can switch to republic on the first turn, which is unfair. I suggest you give them some other trait, pick 2 from militaristic, agricultural and industrial.

	10-06-2005 02:55									#130
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

so autocracy is or is not a govt?

Gramps

	10-06-2005 02:58									#131
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades)

Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.

	10-06-2005 03:01									#132
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades) Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.

game is under way Joncnunn

	10-06-2005 03:03									#133
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, see the editor. There are major differences in the govts compared to standard.

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll so autocracy is or is not a govt? Gramps

	10-06-2005 04:40									#134
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 The save is not here. Please send again. Paddy gets a special Cavalry, and Ljube gets Artillery. But if I am going to give the Artillery Lethal Bombard, I will also reduce its attack strength a bit.

	10-06-2005 05:03									#135
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Yes, see the editor. There are major differences in the govts compared to standard.

what editor?

I thought this was put together on a wing and prayer?

	10-06-2005 05:52									#136
	Increase Your PM Length

Turn sent to Beta

	10-06-2005 06:37									#137
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Changing the Ottoaman empire's Relgious traight

Ah, be a sport jon. It was not meant for anyone to change government throughout WWI and certainly not to change government with virtually no anarchy. We do want a little bit of historical accuracy here for the sake of role playing which is going to be the key element of this game.

	10-06-2005 06:41									#138
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn On land bombardment units, I'm against giving the equivalent of artillery lethal land bombadment if artillery is adviable at the start or one tech away from anyone. (Trades) Lethal cannons that can be upgraded to artillery instead is fine.

Serbia had lethal artillery in WWI. How else can Serbian victories against twice as numerous enemies in two epic battles be explained, let alone achieved?
Again, this game is played for the sake of role playing.

	10-06-2005 07:49									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One last question Modo. Can I upgrade my Serbian Battery to Howitzer?

	10-06-2005 11:02									#140
	Remove this text

Here is how I did it:

Ljube has access to powerful Artillery with Lethal Bombard. It upgrades from Cannon, and can be upgraded to Howitzer.

Jon's Ottomen still have the Religious trait.

Paddy has a weak-attack (4) high-mobility (2 moves, treats all terrain as Roads) Unique Unit, a slightly improved Conquistador.

Britain, Austria-Hungary, and France will be happy to know that their respective unique armoured vehicles now count as UUs and can start the Golden Age.


No more restarts (I hope ).

	10-06-2005 13:49									#141
	Remove this text

Religious Ottomans is grossly unfair. They can switch governments while nobody else can. Strange for Ottomans, particularly because they didn't switch so easily and not without some degree of anarchy, which cost them much of their territory.


EDIT: If you agree to kylle the Ottoman religious trait, perhaps you could further increase attack or defence or both of Paddy's conquistadors. Otherwise it seems they won't be so hot against WWI infantry.

Last edited by Ljube on 10-06-2005 at 13:56

	10-06-2005 14:28									#142
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ljube Religious Ottomans is grossly unfair.

So is your powerful artillery if the Ottomen could not counter it with the government change. I said no more restarts. The "I hope" part referred only to bugs, if any more happen.

	10-06-2005 14:32									#143
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Game On

hehehe

	10-06-2005 14:37									#144
	Inflate your Upload Space

Give the ottomans my "powerful artillery" and give me religious if it's all the same.
Oh, and don't forget, also give me their UU cavalry.

You are effectively turning the feudal Ottomans into a Super Power.

	10-06-2005 14:59									#145
	Support Apolyton

Ljube, you chose the weakest civ in this scenario, nobody forced you. Nothing will change that, so what is your problem?

Besides, a govenment change after Despotism only makes for a cashflow difference. It is hard for a small country to get more production out of it, especially if one has to do research instead of cash-rushing things, and is in a war giving him War Weariness (which everyone will be pretty soon, I believe)...

	10-06-2005 15:08									#146
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I disagree.


My problem is historically inaccurate, ultra powerful Ottoman Empire which is going to destroy Serbia when in history it shrank before Serbia. Also, in history the Serbian Government was more representative than that of the Ottomans.

	10-06-2005 16:22									#147
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Ljube My problem is historically inaccurate, ultra powerful Ottoman Empire which is going to destroy Serbia when in history it shrank before Serbia. Also, in history the Serbian Government was more representative than that of the Ottomans.

Tell that to the Italians, who are not in the game at all.

I said the same to Jon about this same game: Do not count on historical accurancy.

We play the scenario as it is. If you want your version of it, go ahead and mod the file, and start a new game based on it. I can send you the current scenario, with the Serbian UU you wanted (and I included).

	10-06-2005 16:36									#148
	Inflate your Upload Space

OK, but expect me dead very soon. Perhaps I can survive selling my "powerful artillery" to super powers like Germany.


EDIT: please send me the edited file.

	10-06-2005 23:34									#149
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ljube, you will last longer than you would if multi player games allowed more than 8 players.

In the SP one, Bulgaria is one of your enemies. In this one, you start with Bulgaria. In Mp, Italy starts divided between you, the Austrian-Hungarians, and France. One of the British islands off the coast of Turkey has a land bridge not there is the SP version.

No locked wars in the MP one, but most of the world in them in SP.

I was however shocked to see in the SP version that they hadn't marked any of the civs as AI only.

I'd have definately marked Albania as an AI only civ. (2 cities, 1 unit, starts in Anarchy. Even with Religious, with a human neighbor it's doubtful they'd live long enough to form a govt.

Serbia does not start in a WW govt. The difference an improved govt would make is in cash rushing not shield production nor happiness. Serbia is indeed the weakest player on the MP map, but the Ottomans are also weak compared to the major powers. (Germany, Austria-Hungary, France, England, Russia.)
This is still more major powers than WW II (Germany, England, USSR)

	12-06-2005 07:18									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

2nd version on to Paddy.

Thanks for all your work on this Modo.