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Cataphract887
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i was over at cIV forums and was posting OT stuff about tileless maps and simultanious turns,and it got me thinking on smac2.on one hand,theres the players i encountered in that forum that basicly say they want the same old civ,which imho is a style pushed to far.4x is great,but civ2 was 1994 and this is now 11 years later.the same old(updated) model has undergone no serious improvements,but the
whole rest of the world has changed.
i was thinking (1)tileless,(2)real time,(3)full 3d map and maybe other things i havnt thought of yet.and with that statement alienated 99% of the smac community  (including myself if i read this 2 days ago). on an agreeable note,(4) an innovative anti ICS
(1)tileless.im sure everyone is familar with the probs of tiles.faster diagonal movement,maps that are blocky(relative to resolution),and all those other things.a tileless system might remove all that and bring in even more complications,needless to say increased complexity
Campaign
map
raildroad tycoon
these are 2 games that use a ''tileless'' system.of course,they still have tiles,just smaller and less noticable,if shown at all. if you look at either of these maps,you will notice a much better world,real mountains,almost an ariel photograph of terrian. of course,unit movement gets more complicated,but the total war system of stacking units to form armies would be great,but take out
the generals(rpg'ish) and etc.this way if you have 4 impact rifles,3 rovers and a former you can move them all with one click,or just select the rovers and move them out from the formation in a new
formation of their own)the rtw system of moving units on the map seems adequate to me.one thing should be stressed,this WOULD NOT be rtw AT ALL. the way i envision it,units have a radius about them and entering that allows you to attack the unit. maybe all the terrian(trees,elevation even buildings) could play into
the fight.
(2) real time.im sure this is the biggest bone to pick,and visions of frantic button clicking and speed games pop into your head. let me reassure you,i have played starcraft,warcraft3,aok:tc, and by
no means would i mean to say it would be anything like that.not that i didnt have fun playing those titles,but that just isnt smac,period. those kind of games give real time a bad name.i have yet to play it,but EU 1 or 2 may have what i mean by 'real time'(anyone confirm these games as good real time models?)
also to help out here,player made ''scripts'' for unit behavoiur or more prefferably selectable intelligent scripts that come with the game(yeah right). say i have 2 impact inf heading along a ridge.they spot a hive rover in the valley below to their right.they check the script i selected for unit behavoiur in that position,and move along(at a sneakier pace) the opposite side out of sight but with elements on the ridge to keep the rover in sight,instead of simply moving foreward blindly.
this raises an interesting point.should they be allowed to attack from where they are with rifles on the ridge,or need to move down into physical contact as it is now? being able to attack from range would require a much zoomed in map(no longer measure tiles as 100x100 km but say,1x1 km).
(3) full 3d.this fits in with my prevoius point,and only included because of that.if sush a system would be implemented,a free roving camera(with a lowest height limit) might be good. im no fan of fancy graphics,myself.heck,i prefer civ2 graphics to civ3 this might mean a system reminescent of 'ground control'
[http://www.igrograd.com.ua/images/81-141/ground/4.jpg]
[http://igrozone.com/pic/screen/grou...ol%202/gc07.jpg]
preferably implement the best from many current games and designs,and hopefully leave behind all the weaknesses in the examples i have shown.i know every point of mine raises up as many issues as it solves(or more) and the games i offer as examples have some serious drawbacks....
(4) innovative anti ICS.bear with me since i havnt played any new titles in last year or so really,so maybe this is done already. my idea would be to have energy,nutirents,minerals,with real physical quantities,so that having 3 bases on the same river(1 tile spacing) would use up so much of the limited food supply in to fast a time which would result in famine. IE in a closed system there is 20 food,10 minerals,10 energy. 1 base at size 5 could get say 10 food at a constant rate(ten food per month,system regrows that much per month) but 3 size 2's would take 12 food,IE outsripping local resources.also pollution(harder to dispose of wastes) and other things would hamper close spacing.just look at india or china.they are ICSing like mad all through history,and loosing.
*collapses exhausted* will spellcheck later if i did something to bad
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Cataphract887
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dosnt that mean smax is seriously flawed,not that my statement is false?
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Cataphract887
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india and china have no 'projection of power' capabilites,AFAIK
economic wealth is not determined by ownership of buisenesses.
you'd be surprised how at the mercy of US china really is. while we could get factories up quickly for most imported goods,they would have no market to send things.they cannot go to war with us,period.but we can,if willing to take a pinch
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Senethro
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I doubt I can make it any clearer.
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Senethro
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Fair enough. I like it except for the fact its too strong in some circumstances. And changing citizens en masse to thinkers is hella boring.
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PJayTycy
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quote:
raildroad tycoon
these are 2 games that use a ''tileless'' system.of course,they still have tiles,just smaller and less noticable,if shown at all. if you look at either of these maps,you will notice a much better world,real mountains,almost an ariel photograph of terrian. |
Poptop (the designers of Railroad Tycoon 3) are currently working on a turn-based wargame on this engine:
Shattered Union
I wrote a small program to actually import any picture to such a map. Some people used it with satellite photos to create very realistic worlds.
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Senethro
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Cataphract: Incorrect, China became insular at one point early in last millenium. Prior to that, there is good reason their shipping sailed as far as Europe and America. However, one emperor destoryed all shipyards and ship designs. (because he was crazy like that).
Don't be so eurocentric.
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paramir
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I think smac is still smac wihtout tiles, but not without turns
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Cataphract887
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quote:
Cataphract: Incorrect, China became insular at one point early in last millenium. Prior to that, there is good reason their shipping sailed as far as Europe and America. However, one emperor destoryed all shipyards and ship designs. (because he was crazy like that).
Don't be so eurocentric. |
i cantt claim to know alot about this,but i thought they spent most of their history in self inflicted isolation? 
quote:
And about trade, did you ever heard about the silk traderoute? If not some Chinese new group of rulers had decided to halt it (they wanted China back in isolation IIRC), the West may have taken quite a bit longer to try to find a new traderoute to the 'Indies' over the seas. It was the West which had become dependent on some of the goods brought through it, not the other way around. |
Actually i was referring to the last 50 years or so.they have a very nice balance of exporting vs importing,and there is one greedy,overconusming country that if exports to got cut,the chinese econ would be in some danger(all those goods and no fat people to buy em)...i in no way meant that before 1900's they were slaves to europe.i agree the west was dependent on them...
quote:
their intervention in Korea and Vietnam and so on.
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those wars were lost because of communist subterfuge and politics being involved .if mc authur had been allowed to fight(a real hero for america btw) he could have toasted the commies,chinese help or not.and veitnam,our troops were held back again for political reasons. airstrikes and artillery cant win a war alone.we could whoop the commies any day and we did then in actual combat 
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If the game is not tile-based, and if the game is not turn-based, then its not really SMAC is it? |
i dunno.i was more thinking of capturing the essence of smac and its fun spirit of going to the stars and believable sci-fi then making a stricly linear 'update'
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01-06-2005 19:12
..something about the partisan tactics developed in USSR (and tested in WW2, Africa, Korea and at last Vietnam) during 1930s - 1960s.. 
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