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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:18
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DL or not, quelle domme? UDB can make the scenario however he wants; I never said he couldn't, I just said it would ruin the game thematically and in terms of balance. I eventually just dropped it because I don't have ToT anyway. The argument over the possibility of the continent's existence IRL was merely a sidetrack, aided and abetted by numerous additional irrelevant sidetracks about maps of antarctica and crap like that. Now please quit resurrecting dead flamewars, whoever you are.
As for units, I'll add the Chimera, Amphisbaena (I believe that's Greek, though it might be Roman), Basilisks, and the classic unicorn to Varwnos's list (the one with the tri-colored horn). Also pentekonters, if you want a tech tree for naval units in Greece. But it's more likely that you'll need additional units for the other civs more, as we've inherited a VAST body of lore from the Greeks.
EDIT: I don't even remember what you said, Boco, so don't sweat it. But yeah, back on topic.
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fairline
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of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:18
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Nice Cerberus, Varwnos 
quote:
Originally posted by High_Flyer
@UDB: I wish you all the best in this scenario
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This bit I agree with 
I'd keep my mouth shut, but I see the following:
quote:
It seems to me that Leonidas was one of the few people who had contributed substantially to this thread with information. I, for one, enjoyed reading the info he had posted.
It seems to me that Leonidas was defending UDB's right to make the scenario the way he wanted.
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It seems to me Leonidas was espousing his alternative view of history, which is absolutely fine; what he wasn't doing, by and large, was defending UDB's right to make a scenario the way he wanted. Nobody was suggesting UDB should not make a mythological scenario; quite the reverse in fact. I'm sure it's a great topic.
quote:
fairline entered this thread and made fun of Leonidas.
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I made a flippant comment after reading a huge amount of fantastical nonsense porporting to be fact. It was a pretty mild piss-take that would hardly count as 'making fun of Leonidas'.
quote:
Exile, having contibuted nothing constructive to this thread, also made fun of Leonidas (through fairline's statements). He then turned this thread into a flame war.
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I would suggest that Leonidas' rather aggressive responses to another pretty mild ribbing by Exile contributed equally to the escalation of the 'flame war'.
quote:
Boco then entered this thread and made derogatory remarks (by comparing total words used).
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I'd say it was irony rather than a derogatory remark. Read what he said again.
quote:
Yet, I feel that Leonidas was wrongly made the culprit in all of this. I don't know if Leonidas has left this forum for good, but I feel that we have lost a very valuable member.
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I'd say he painted himself as an innocent victim. Judging by the fact he's still editing his posts to remove comments like 'Fairline made several accusations', I'd say he's alive and well.
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:18
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I don't know much at all about ToT, but aren't there parallel map functions in it? I've heard suggestions for Niflheim, Hades, the Elysian Fields, etc., but I don't know what the function of such maps would be, as they sound essentially restricted to their culture of origin; some sort of bonus barbarian hunting ground for each culture?
Depending on how closely they can be junctioned together, you could have a "The Heavens" map and a "The Earth" map, with Valkyries, Furies and Ka duking it out on the former while more terrestrial units (centaurs, trolls, Sphinx) handle the latter. Sort of a dual planes of reality thing, to simulate the deeply mystical dimension underlying the veneer of ordinary life in the classical imagination. Or maybe that's BS and I just think it's a fun idea which may or may not even be possible with ToT for all I know. Take your pick. Anyway, there's one suggestion for ya.
BTW, what did the flyboy or whoever he was get banned for, St. Leo? I'm not really protesting, mind you, just curious. Was he really a DL?
[St. Leo: Yup. DL and probable troll all along. Thank you for your assistance in apprehending the miscreant, folks.]
Last edited by St Leo on 18-06-2005 at 21:02
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Boco
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who was once King for a week.
Jan 2001
time: 00:18
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You certainly can have up to 4 maps in ToT. Could have heavens, underworld, this humble world, and maybe even Neptune's realm. It's a little tricky setting up the intermap transport. Getting the AI to behave sanely between maps can be tough, too. If you want to go this route, and need help, just let me know. Done right, it can be a lot of fun to play.
quote:
Anyway, my plan is to largely allow the player(s) a lot of freedom in expansion, research, and diplomacy, much like vanilla civilization 2, but with each civilization having unique human, heroic, and monstrous units, but rough equivalents between civs being tied to the same advance, thus using the same broad tech tree (like in Test of Time's Midgard scenario; I do plan to use Test of Time, btw). |
Could be a lot of fun to require that you send a hero on a quest into another world to get a vital tech or two.  Does this fit your scheme, UDB?
Btw, Kull's Oddyssey has a lot of clever ideas in it. Might be worth dissecting a bit.
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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:18
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Here is a map of all the sacred places in Greece.
If I can find anything else you want me to post?
 Attachment: sacred greece.jpg
This has been downloaded 130 time(s).
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:18
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Pretty good...'cept that I think "Eleusis" is spelled wrong. Not that I know much about the holy cities of the pre-Judaic religions.
Oh, and while the gods did, for the most part, exist, accounts of Persephone, at least, have been badly distorted over the ages. As the daughter of Zeus, lord of the Heavens, and Demeter, patron of agriculture, Persephone was in fact the Goddess of the Heavenly Grass. Being a child of incest, she had a severe form of hereditary glaucoma carried by the Olympian line. Recent evidence suggests that the Oracles of EVERY deity were required by custom to take a hit from the Bowl of Persephone before delivering their messages. And the tired old myth about her being abducted and causing winter is a greatly sanitized version; originally, while she was away, Dionysius and the Maenads (who were thoughtlessly left off of your tree) got into her stash and got such a severe case of the munchies as a result that they ate all the greenery off the earth for six months. And I can prove it too. NORML has provided me with several links explaining the allegorical meaning of the myth.
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Elok
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Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:18
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Well, I think we use different latinization systems and whatnot. Assuming I get the different systems in general, kawirian would be...Kourian? Dunno. I just rediscovered my "Oxford Dictionary of Classical Myth and Religion," which I'd forgotten I had, today. Good fortune, that. I've got that big ol' Funk and Wagnalls Dictionary of Folklore and such-and-such too, if I can be of assistance in reference work.
Anyway, enough swaggering from me. The Oxford book says Pythagoras was born in Samos, but has no "Samos" entry. It does, however, list the island of Samothrace as the center of a cult called Cabiri, dedicated to twin gods. Lessee, Cabiri...the Cabiri entry says they weren't a specific duo, but a general concept that varied from region to region. They were also big in Thebes...apparently they're commonly depicted as Hermes and Pan in art. How the charming messenger and the freaky goat-man are supposed to be twins is beyond me. Oh well. This book rocks. Bulfinch's Mythology is a bit more common and worth having just for entertainment.
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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:18
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The Olympians are a group of 12 gods who ruled after the overthrow of the Titans. All the Olympians are related in some way. They are named after their dwelling place, Mount Olympus.
The Olympians Description
Zeus overthrew his Father Cronus. He then drew lots with his brothers Poseidon and Hades. Zeus won the draw and became the supreme ruler of the gods. He is lord of the sky, the rain god. His weapon is a thunderbolt which he hurls at those who displease him. He is married to Hera but, is famous for his many affairs. He is also known to punish those that lie or break oaths.
Poseidon is the brother of Zeus. After the overthrow of their Father Cronus he drew lots with Zeus and Hades, another brother, for shares of the world. His prize was to become lord of the sea. He was widely worshiped by seamen. He married Amphitrite, a granddaughter of the Titan Oceanus. At one point he desired Demeter. To put him off Demeter asked him to make the most beautiful animal that the world had ever seen. So to impress her Poseidon created the first horse. In some accounts his first attempts were unsuccessful and created a variety of other animals in his quest. By the time the horse was created his passion for Demeter had cooled. His weapon is a trident, which can shake the earth, and shatter any object. He is second only to Zeus in power amongst the gods. He has a difficult quarrelsome personality. He was greedy. He had a series of disputes with other gods when he tried to take over their cities.
Hades is the brother of Zeus. After the overthrow of their Father Cronus he drew lots with Zeus and Poseidon, another brother, for shares of the world. He had the worst draw and was made lord of the underworld, ruling over the dead. He is a greedy god who is greatly concerned with increasing his subjects. Those whose calling increase the number of dead are seen favorably. The Erinyes are welcomed guests. He is exceedingly disinclined to allow any of his subjects leave. He is also the god of wealth, due to the precious metals mined from the earth. He has a helmet that makes him invisible. He rarely leaves the underworld. He is unpitying and terrible, but not capricious. His wife is Persephone whom Hades abducted. He is the King of the dead but, death itself is another god, Thanatos.
Hestia is Zeus sister. She is a virgin goddess. She does not have a distinct personality. She plays no part in myths. She is the Goddess of the Hearth, the symbol of the house around which a new born child is carried before it is received into the family. Each city had a public hearth sacred to Hestia, where the fire was never allowed to go out.
Hera is Zeus wife and sister. She was raised by the Titans Ocean and Tethys. She is the protector of marriage and takes special care of married women. Hera's marriage was founded in strife with Zeus and continued in strife. Zeus courted her unsuccessfully. He then turned to trickery, changing himself into disheveled cuckoo. Hera feeling sorry for the bird held it to her breast to warm it. Zues then resumed his normal form and taking advantage of the surprise he gained, raped her. She then married him to cover her shame. Once when Zeus was being particularly overbearing to the other gods, Hera convinced them to join in a revolt. Her part in the revolt was to drug Zeus, and in this she was successful. The gods then bound the sleeping Zeus to a couch taking care to tie many knots. This done they began to quarrel over the next step. Briareus overheard the arguments. Still full of gratitude to Zeus, Briareus slipped in and was able to quickly untie the many knots. Zeus sprang from the couch and grabbed up his thunderbolt. The gods fell to their knees begging and pleading for mercy. He seized Hera and hung her from the sky with gold chains. She wept in pain all night but, none of the others dared to interfere. Her weeping kept Zeus up and the next morning he agreed to release her if she would swear never to rebel again. She had little choice but, to agree. While she never again rebelled, she often intrigued against Zeus's plans and she was often able to outwit him. Most stories concerning Hera have to do with her jealous revenge for Zeus's infidelities. Her sacred animals are the cow and the peacock. Her favorite city is Argos.
Ares is the son of Zeus and Hera. He was disliked by both parents. He is the god of war. He is considered murderous and bloodstained but, also a coward. When caught in an act of adultery with Aphrodite her husband Hephaestus is able publicly ridicule him. His bird is the vulture. His animal is the dog.
Athena is the daughter of Zeus. She sprang full grown in armor from his forehead, thus has no mother. She is fierce and brave in battle but, only fights to protect the state and home from outside enemies. She is the goddess of the city, handicrafts, and agriculture. She invented the bridle, which permitted man to tame horses, the trumpet, the flute, the pot, the rake, the plow, the yoke, the ship, and the chariot. She is the embodiment of wisdom, reason, and purity. She was Zeus's favorite child and was allowed to use his weapons including his thunderbolt. Her favorite city is Athens. Her tree is the olive. The owl is her bird. She is a virgin goddess.
Apollo is the son of Zeus and Leto. His twin sister is Artemis . He is the god of music, playing a golden lyre. The Archer, far shooting with a silver bow. The god of healing who taught man medicine. The god of light. The god of truth, who can not speak a lie. One of Apollo's more important daily tasks is to harness his chariot with four horses an drive the Sun across the sky. He is famous for his oracle at Delphi. People traveled to it from all over the Greek world to divine the future. His tree was the laurel. The crow his bird. The dolphin his animal.
Aphrodite is the goddess of love, desire and beauty. In addition to her natural gifts she has a magical girdle that compels anyone she wishes to desire her. There are two accounts of her birth. One says she is the daughter of Zeus and Dione. The other goes back to when Cronus castrated Uranus and tossed his severed genitals into the sea. Aphrodite then arose from the sea foam on a giant scallop and walked to shore in Cyprus. She is the wife of Hephaestus. The myrtle is her tree. The dove, the swan, and the sparrow her birds.
Hermes is the son of Zeus and Maia. He is Zeus messenger. He is the fastest of the gods. He wears winged sandals, a winged hat, and carries a magic wand. He is the god of thieves and god of commerce. He is the guide for the dead to go to the underworld. He invented the lyre, the pipes, the musical scale, astronomy , weights and measures, boxing, gymnastics, and the care of olive trees.
Artemis the daughter of Zeus and Leto. Her twin brother is Apollo . She is the lady of the wild things. She is the huntsman of the gods. She is the protector of the young. Like Apollo she hunts with silver arrows. She became associated with the moon. She is a virgin goddess, and the goddess of chastity. She also presides over childbirth, which may seem odd for a virgin, but goes back to causing Leto no pain when she was born. She became associated with Hecate. The cypress is her tree. All wild animals are scared to her, especially the deer.
Hephaestus is the son of Zeus and Hera. Sometimes it is said that Hera alone produced him and that he has no father. He is the only god to be physically ugly. He is also lame. Accounts as to how he became lame vary. Some say that Hera, upset by having an ugly child, flung him from Mount Olympus into the sea, breaking his legs. Others that he took Hera's side in an argument with Zeus and Zeus flung him off Mount Olympus. He is the god of fire and the forge. He is the smith and armorer of the gods. He uses a volcano as his forge. He is the patron god of both smiths and weavers. He is kind and peace loving. His wife is Aphrodite. Sometimes his wife is identified as Aglaia.
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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:18
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The Titans, also known as the elder gods, ruled the earth before the Olympians overthrew them. The ruler of the Titans was Cronus who was de-throned by his son Zeus. Most of the Titans fought with Cronus against Zeus and were punished by being banished to Tartarus. During their rule the Titans were associated with the various planets.
The Titans Description
Gaea is the Earth goddess. She mated with her son Uranus to produce the remaining Titans. Gaea seems to have started as a neolithic earth-mother worshipped before the Indo-European invasion that eventually lead to the Hellenistic civilization.
Uranus is the sky god and first ruler. He is the son of Gaea, who created him without help. He then became the husband of Gaea and together they had many offspring, including twelve of the Titans. His rule ended when when Cronus, encouraged by Gaea, castrated him. He either died from the wound or withdrew from earth.
Cronus was the ruling Titan who came to power by castrating his Father Uranus. His wife was Rhea. There offspring were the first of the Olympians. To insure his safety Cronus ate each of the children as they were born. This worked until Rhea, unhappy at the loss of her children, tricked Cronus into swallowing a rock, instead of Zeus. When he grew up Zeus would revolt against Cronus and the other Titans, defeat them, and banish them to Tartarus in the underworld. Cronus managed to escape to Italy, where he ruled as Saturn. The period of his rule was said to be a golden age on earth, honored by the Saturnalia feast.
Rhea was the wife of Cronus. Cronus made it a practice to swallow their children. To avoid this, Rhea tricked Cronus into swallowing a rock, saving her son Zeus.
Oceanus Oceanus is the unending stream of water encircling the world. Together with his wife Tethys produced the rivers and the three thousand ocean nymphs.
Tethys is the wife of Oceanus. Together they produced the rivers and the three thousand ocean nymphs.
Hyperion Hyperion is the Titan of light, an early sun god. He is the son of Gaea and Uranus. He married his sister Theia. Their children Helius (the sun), Selene (the moon), and Eos (the dawn).
Mnemosyne was the Titan of memory and the mother of Muses.
Themis was the Titan of justice and order. She was the mother of the Fates and the Seasons.
Iapetus was the father of Prometheus, Epimetheus, Menoetius, and Atlas by Clymene.
Coeus is the Titan of Intelligence. Father of Leto.
Phoebe is the Titan of the Moon. Mother of Leto.
Prometheus was the wisest Titan. His name means "forethought" and he was able to foretell the future. He was the son of Iapetus. When Zeus revolted against Cronus Prometheus deserted the other Titans and fought on Zeus side. By some accounts he and his brother Epimetheus were delegated by Zeus to create man. In all accounts, Prometheus is known as the protector and benefactor of man. He gave mankind a number of gifts including fire. He also tricked Zeus into allowing man to keep the best part of the animals sacrificed to the gods and to give the gods the worst parts. For this Zeus punished Prometheus by having him chained to a rock with an eagle tearing at his liver. He was to be left there for all eternity or until he agreed to disclose to Zeus which of Zeus children would try to replace him. He was eventually rescued by Heracles without giving in to Zeus.
Epimetheus was a stupid Titan, whose name means "afterthought". He was the son of Iapetus. In some accounts he is delegated, along with his brother Prometheus by Zeus to create mankind. He also accepted the gift of Pandora from Zeus, which lead to the introduction of evil into the world.
Atlas was the son of Iapetus. Unlike his brothers Prometheus and Epimetheus, Atlas fought with the other Titans supporting Cronus against Zeus. Due to Cronus's advance age Atlas lead the Titan's in battle. As a result he was singled out by Zeus for a special punishment and made to hold up the world on his back.
Metis was the Titaness of the forth day and the planet Mercury. She presided over all wisdom and knowledge. She was seduced by Zeus and became pregnant with Athena. Zeus became concerned over prophecies that her second child would replace Zeus. To avoid this Zeus ate her. It is said that she is the source for Zeus wisdom and that she still advises Zeus from his belly. It may seem odd for Metis to have been pregnant with Athena but, never mentioned as her mother. This is because the classic Greeks believed that children were generated solely from the fathers sperm. The women was thought to be nothing more than a vessel for the fetus to grow in. Since Metis was killed well before Athena's birth her role doesn't count.
Dione is, according to Homer in the Iliad, the mother of Aphrodite.
I am sure this is much more info then you wanted but out of all this you can fully create your storyline.
Good luck uncle
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beingofone
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U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:18
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Just kidding with you varwnos.
Greek history is one of my favorites.
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varwnos
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Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:18
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The great god Pan. Or at least a "Satyros" (follower of pan)
Last edited by varwnos on 24-06-2005 at 08:31
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17-06-2005 23:40
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