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flash9286
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The next Soul Calibur is going to be a Playstation exclusive, Devil May Cry may not sell well but its a awesome series. We will have to wait and see what they do with underground, but it will atleast give microsoft compettion in the online market. What exclusives does xbox, other than Halo, that is good.
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flash9286
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Well people do buy it, for a couple of weeks it was at the top of the sales charts.
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flash9286
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I was reffering to asher post about xbox exclusives, the only good exclusives I can think of is Halo and DOA series, and I know DMC sales dont compare to Halo, and I really dont how well the DOA series sell but I assume they are pretty good.
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flash9286
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Its not like thats the only exclusives we have. We got god of war, ratchet and clank, gran turismo and others. Im pretty sure SC is only going to be on the ps2 though im not sure. Im not a harddrive expert but every review I have read buts the PS3 ahead. I dont know what you mean by multi-platform, do you mean multi-platform games?
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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The reviews I've read from uninformed journalists put the PS3 ahead, the previews I've read from tech geeks put them about even, but too many unknowns.
Not much is known about the PS3's GPU, aside from it's a derivative of the G70, which is based off the GeForce 6000-series.
There's also an interesting article on how Cell came about.
Sony wanted to just build a "network on a chip", a bunch of small processors working together to perform lots of calculations.
Toshiba (Sony's longtime partner for Playstation) proposed using a ton of really small chips on the same chip (basically, the tiny SPE processors).
IBM was contacted for their opinion, and said best real-world performance would come from several powerful chips in a single chip, not a ton of tiny processors.
Ken Kutaragi, Sony Computer Entertainment CEO/Playstation Father, is an engineer himself. His lifelong friend, Mitsuo Saito, was head of the "Toshiba System-LSI Technology Laboratory". Due to the nature of Japanese business/honour/friendship, Kutaragi couldn't decline Toshiba's proposal outright. He also thought the IBM solution would be too expensive.
So it was a political merger of the two ideas: It'd have one powerful IBM core, and 7 tiny SPEs.
It's interesting that when MS talked to IBM, it was after Cell had already basically been designed. IBM had the same engineers work on MS' CPU, but without the complications of the Japanese political scene, and with the knowledge they gained from working on Cell.
The end result is tri-core 3.2GHz Xenon CPU, which is more than likely going to be faster in real-world game performance. 
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flash9286
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Nice overview, but I would still like to wait and see the end specs and what game developers say about the finished systems. Plus Sony still has a year and half to the release of the system. Also could you give me a link to that article, I would like to read it.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9320
quote:
Analysts predict $75 launch subsidy on Xbox 360 hardware
Illustration
Rob Fahey 13:36 06/06/2005
Speculation points to $375 manufacturing price, $299 retail price
Microsoft's Xbox 360 will be priced at $299 when it hits shelves later this year, according to analysts at major investment bank UBS, with Microsoft subsidising each console to the tune of $75 in order to meet that price point.
Predictions by the analysts, reported last week in the Toronto Globe and Mail, suggest that Microsoft will pay $375 per unit to its manufacturing partners, with the final retail price of the console pegged at $299.
That's in line with comments from Microsoft boss J Allard, who told the media at E3 that the Xbox 360 would launch "in the neighbourhood" of the $300 price point at which the original Xbox launched in late 2001 in North America.
The $75 subsidy reportedly required to hit the launch price is quite high, but not unusual for a new console. Platform holders routinely subsidise their consoles at launch in order to build an installed base, and then make back the money from software sales and the rapidly falling price of hardware manufacture late in the lifespan of the console.
However, Microsoft found it more difficult to do this with the original Xbox, since it had to continue buying components from partners such as NVIDIA and Intel at high prices - unlike Sony, which has been able to hugely reduce the manufacturing cost of the PS2 as it builds most of the core components itself.
For Xbox 360, Microsoft has moved to a more Sony-like model, and expects to be able to realise similar economies as the scale of manufacturing ramps up and the component costs fall. |
Nice.  They supposedly lost $150/unit on the original Xbox launch.
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mrmitchell
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Only $75? Girlie men.
Subsidize my unit $375, Microsofties. If I had a free XBOX I would buy the games, controllers, XBOX Live etc. to make up for the loss.
Do we know how much Sony and Nintendo make off of their consoles?
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mrmitchell
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quote:
On the flipside, the CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, Ken Kutaragi, said: "The PS3 will be priced at an amount not plausible for a game machine."
http://www.itmedia.co.jp/games/arti.../news001_2.html
That makes sense given the huge array of media (including the expensive blu-ray) that they have given in their specs. Looks like a $349 launch price at the lowest, $399 likely.
Would Sony be screwed if they launched a year after the 360 with a higher price?
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You can buy whole goddamn computers for $500.
You have to consider if they launch a year later it will drive the cost down some. But then, they can't just equal the XBOX in power (graphics, games, features, etc.). They'll have to crush it, I mean, they've had a year more to work on it, theirs should be a lot better.
In the end they'll probably end up cutting something - blue ray, a hard drive, etc. to make $349 and the launch date.
$399 console a year after XBOX 360, yes, I call Sony screwed.
OTOH - Nintendo is not screwed. They will not sell for $399. The Revolution looks like it will not be one of these "must have the top graphics addiction" machines like MS and Sony are releasing. I bet on it coming out for under $250.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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http://www.computerandvideogames.co.../news_story.php(que)id=120168
quote:
KUTARAGI SNIPES AT XBOX 360 (AGAIN)
Sony's Ken hands out a further dissing to MS and Nintendo too, just so they don't feel left out.
12:55 Father of the PlayStation Ken Kutaragi is back on the dissing trail again today, with further snipes at the Xbox 360 plus a few sly digs at Nintendo thrown in for good measure.
Speaking to Japanese tech site Watch Impress, Ken was clearly aiming to land further body blows on the Xbox 360, perhaps a sign of how clearly Sony perceive it to be a threat. When asked to compare the two next-gen machines, Kutaragi-san said: "This time, Microsoft has stated clearly that it is going after the PlayStation. However, they're going not after the PlayStation 3, but the PlayStation 2. They were looking at 2, and that's why [the Xbox 360] became like that."
Hmm, our reaction? Don't be booking that worldwide comedy tour just yet Kutaragi-san. Mind you, he did manage to slip in the gag about Xbox 1.5 again saying: "One famous reporter let slip, Xbox is 1.5, the PS [3] is more than I was expecting, so it's 3.5. That's the difference."
Elsewhere in the interview, Kutaragi-san is back on firmer ground when he starts expounding on the vision behind the PS3: "From the start, we intended to make not just a game machine for kids, but a computer for entertainment that adults throughout the world could enjoy."
"Other companies may talk of game machines, but we've always referred to 'computer entertainment,' even in our press materials. It's entertainment and also a computer. That's what's important." He couldn't resist for long, could he? Sony obviously giving Nintendo's vision for the Revolution a bit of a sideswipe there too.
Dismissing Microsoft's new vision for a High Definition future, Kutaragi-san wasn't afraid to wield the big stick again: "Other companies may have HD graphics, but the internals are the same. For the most part, they don't do calculations. For the most part, they don't do physics - they just add movement through motion capture. Even if you can't tell the difference with a quick glance at the visuals, this difference is something that can be immediately understood."
One further development from Kutaragi-san's speech is worth noting, apparently we'll all to refer to the PlayStation 3 in CAPITALS now, as it becomes the PLAYSTATION 3 to clearly delineate it from its predecessors, or something. It'll just look like everyone's shouting when we write it on the net though.
Still that's enough Kutargi-san outpourings for the moment - but we'll expect fresh offensives as Sony mount an anti-charm offensive to counteract Microsoft's launch over the next six months.
As ever we'll be there with [virtual] pencils sharpened to bring you the latest. |
That's so sad. Not only does he keep calling the Xbox 360 the "Xbox 1.5", but now he's talking about the PS3 is really 3.5. 
And it's not "Playstation 3" anymore, it's "PLAYSTATION 3". The capitals make it that much more intimidating!
Can he get any more obvious with his damage control?
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...der=asc&start=0
It's official: No harddrive on the PS3.
You'll still be buying overpriced memory cards for tiny storage.
No level caching, crippled downloadable content...
quote:
Ken Kutaragi Interview by Hiroshige Goto - pt.1 : "We Change Computing by PLAYSTATION 3"
The Reason Why PLAYSTATION Is In Capitals
Goto: PS3 is, if you look at just the spec, a full-spec computer. Why did you make it so rich?
Kutaragi: Since the beginning, we've been trying not to do a game console for children, but to do a computer for entertainment that grownups around the world can enjoy. We've been thinking about doing a computer thoroughly. Meanwhile, finally, PC has come to the dead end. So, this time, we want to do the next computer with partners such as IBM in an ensured way.
What we are thinking about this time is to change computing itself thoroughly. We want to change the paradigm. We want to set PS3 as the benchmark of everything.
G: Though its goal is a general computer, you took a game console as its form in the beginning.
K: A game console... maybe. At E3, it's a game console, and its applications are games. We really want to do computer entertainment. Other companies may call theirs game consoles, but we've been calling it as computer entertainment in press releases all along. It's entertainment and computer as well. It's important.
At this '3', for the first time we made the word PlayStation all capital "PLAYSTATION". We named it "PlayStation" at first, as workstations were our dream computers. We added the "PS" logo to it as PlayStation is a trademark and starts with P and S. But this time we use "PLAYSTATION" in capitals.
It's because, basically, with PC and all going to the dead end, it leads to nowhere if you ask whether it's a PC or a game console. I think we've entered the era in which you ask what is the next playstation. So PLAYSTATION is "The playstation". We do it for a bit of pride too.
Until now, it's said "let's take functions in arcade boards or workstations", or in the case of Microsoft, they said they'd use a cutting-edge PC as a game console. But it's no more. PLAYSTATION will develop as PLAYSTATION.
Calculations by A Cell Processor Will Produce Difference
G: So PS3 is a computer and its purpose is entertainment.
K: Of cource, in the beginning, it's about what's interesting as a game console, and as computer entertainment.
In PS1, making 3D or not was the biggest differentiation factor. In PlayStation 2, it was the mission to bring 3D in the complete single-standard format - complete NTSC and PAL - in full color. This time, it'll be the crucial difference from other platforms that we make it all computing. In the background of graphics, it does vast calculations, and it produces difference.
G: It does various simulations such as physics simulations, and operations such as AI, synthesis, in its background.
K: You can't see by just a glance if it's calculated by a Cell Processor or not even though it can show a beautiful HD video. But, if you look at it carefully, calculated things and only converted things are clearly different. You can feel it as an awesome thing when you see it, as it's calculated. You can do thing you've never seen, you can enjoy contents themselves.
In the case of other companies, the inside is the same even though its graphics becomes HD. They hardly calculate things. Like hardly doing physics and just adding a motion by a motion capture. Even though you can't tell by just a glance, such differences can be seen quickly.
G: Do software developers understand that point?
K: I think developers have an undestanding of it. At E3 demo, they tried to do it in real time on the spot rather than prerendering and precalculation. At E3, many demos do various calulations in the background. Also in graphics, how it moves is all done by calculations. Things that couldn't be calculated without huge time until now, they can be done on Cell (in realtime). They'll try to create games that take advantage of it.
Also for audio, it's natural that it doesn't have an audio chip. It's because we calculate it (with Cell). The audio is not like how many voices you have - the audio itself becomes an object.
Between our demo and their demo, such contriving is the difference. They are different more than just the look. I think most people who attended the E3 press conference understood it. A certain famous journalist let slip a word that XBOX is 1.5 while PS is 3.5 as it was above the expectation, they are different like that.
The Difference Between PS3 and XBOX 360 You Can't See From The Specs
G: The messages are clearly different between XBOX 360 and PS3. XBOX 360 pushed the image that they could prepare a solid game console as a platform. PS3 emphasized the possibility of the technologies.
K: This time, Microsoft clearly profess that they are chasing PlayStation. However, what they are chasing are not PLAYSTATION 3 but PlayStation 2. Because they don't know PS3 we are just making now. They become like that as they look at PS2. The goals are different. However, most people can't tell the difference just by looking at the specs. We got mistaken in a similar way in the time of PS1. We'd been evaluated that the both were 3D, along with 3DO. Even though we argued that PS1 calculated 3D while 3DO didn't, we were said that the both were 3D and had CD-ROM, it's terrible like that.
This time, either, they may not be able to see the difference between PS3 and XBOX 360 if the spec sheets are shown side by side. But, at E3, many people said it was good to be able to come and see it, not by the spec. It'll be more infected and understood when it's released.
G: By PC getting to the dead end, do you mean with PC dragged by legacies innovation is difficult and you can't go nowhere?
K: (Current computers) can't make the most of it as a total even though individual devices have their performances. Various bottlenecks are found when you assemble them. If you can make the most of it, you ought to be do decent things if you combine 3.X Ghz Pentium 4 and boards by NVIDIA or ATI, but you can't.
What I call total is the buses, the loads, and other factors when they work together. You can't know it unless you do games (that have a high load). We made the architecture considering all those things. For instance, each SPE works indepedently, and SRAM is attached there, also large GPR (general purpose registers) are attached too. Because of that it can do huge calculations in realtime. Such an architecture is important.
Ken Kutaragi Interview by Hiroshige Goto - pt.2 : "Put a full-blown Linux on PS3 HDD"
The Age of Network Drive
G: PLAYSTATION 3 doesn't have a local HDD even though it boasts that much spec. Why?
K: We don't put an HDD in default. It's because it runs short no matter how much you add it. The next thing that will come is, without a doubt, a network drive. (A storage is) on a Cell server, you can access it via the network from anywhere. In your home, in your friend's home, from anywhere, you can see logically (the same network drive). Such a world.
However, the console itself requires HDD sometimes. So this time you can put a 2.5 inch HDD in there, 80GB and 120GB. It's very short, but it's for running an OS in a single console. Even though you have a tera-byte storage somewhere with a network drive, you have to have a drive in which an OS can run when you get an authentication as a single computer.
Put an OS To Be Seen As A Computer
G: Is it that you run an OS to use it as a computer?
K: What I find strange is that while we've been calling it as a computer all the time, in the same business world Nintendo affirms it's a toy, it's a toy, to the outside world. So, even though we make supercomputer-class things that require an export control, the offices regard it as a toy.
Even PlayStation 2 is seen as a game console though we made an awesome chip such as EE and run Linux on it. I'd thought it might become a bit better as Microsoft came from the IT world. But the awkward thing is that they don't say that as they don't want to break their own business. As they are thinking that it becomes a trouble for them if Xbox runs Windows, they are insisting that XBOX is a game console. What a troublesome thing.
This time, we position it as a supercomputer. However, as there are people who don't see it as a computer if it's not filed as a computer, we make it run an OS. Cell can run multiple OSes simultaneously. So, to run an OS as it is and to say it's a computer, it needs an HDD.
So, I think we'll put Linux (on an HDD) from the beginning... as a bonus. To file it as a computer.
G: For an OS to be run on Cell, Linux comes to mind.
K: Though Linux is also a legacy, it can be a initial lead. For Cell, an OS is merely an application (laugh). The kernel runs on Cell (Cell OS hypervisor) and it takes the style in which multiple OSes as applications run on top of that (virtual machine). Linux will be put of course. If Linux can be put, Lindows or anything can be put.
Also other PC OSs, if the vendors think they want, Windows or Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4), can be put on it. Perhaps even a different OS may emerge.
Drive The Ecosystem By PLAYSTATION 3
G: With an OS, people who write programs on it will appear. To make Cell succeed as a computer, an ecosystem must be run on Cell. It needs the establishment of an ecosystem where many people spontaneously write programs to impel further permeation of Cell.
K: Just like Apple Computer was open back then, if PLAYSTATION 3 is released and becomes open, an ecosystem will be driven. When it became Macintosh, even though Apple didn't do everything, Adobe came and someone came, the ecosystem took off. PC was like that originally. But they absorbed everything (into MS Windows)... Well, it may be their aesthetic, but it's become uncomprehensible even what an OS is.
Until now, we'd provided libraries and game makers had made things in-house, it's not possible anymore though. To do anything, you need a larger expansion. But it'll turn out like that I think. For example, what surprised us is that an iTunes-syncronization software for PSP was released quickly. If it's evaluated as interesting, various things that run on it appear.
G: Non-game softwares that take advantage of Cell will be released in a stream.
K: It'll be about what kind of software on what. For instance an HD video authoring software is basically the same as a non-linear authoring system in TV stations. What we want to do on PS3 is a software of that level. A non-linear authoring system is amazing, but it'll be more amazing if you bring it on Cell. You can manage to do it on a PC, but on PS3 it can be done with ease, you'll see the difference like that. Also, various applications that have been on PC, for example, a photo retouching software. Such softwares will be released rapidly. User interfaces will be interesting too. On PC, you have to wait for years from the XP UI to the next Longhorn. But, ours develop faster. For example, with an interface controlled by gestures and speech like Eye-toy, it becomes Minority Report. Of course such development will be reflected in games too.
G: Will the Cell computer of that time retain the PS3 form factor?
K: This form will prevail first. A keyboard can be connected, it has all of the interfaces required. You can do anything media and network. A thing as much general as this is open.
For instance, you can use everything openly with Linux, so everything is possible (for programmers). Also for graphics, it's the same as it has Shader (with its programmability). |
I cringe while reading most of that interview. It's just such blatant PR work.
But it had that useful nugget of information.
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
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quote:
K: A game console... maybe. At E3, it's a game console, and its applications are games. We really want to do computer entertainment. Other companies may call theirs game consoles, but we've been calling it as computer entertainment in press releases all along. It's entertainment and computer as well. It's important.
At this '3', for the first time we made the word PlayStation all capital "PLAYSTATION". We named it "PlayStation" at first, as workstations were our dream computers. We added the "PS" logo to it as PlayStation is a trademark and starts with P and S. But this time we use "PLAYSTATION" in capitals.
It's because, basically, with PC and all going to the dead end, it leads to nowhere if you ask whether it's a PC or a game console. I think we've entered the era in which you ask what is the next playstation. So PLAYSTATION is "The playstation". We do it for a bit of pride too.
Until now, it's said "let's take functions in arcade boards or workstations", or in the case of Microsoft, they said they'd use a cutting-edge PC as a game console. But it's no more. PLAYSTATION will develop as PLAYSTATION. |
this is mind-bogglingly retarded
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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I think the man's off his rocker.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23852
From the June 2005 Business 2.0 magazine:
quote:
"Kutaragi, known for the bold stroke and the grand vision, swung for the fences from the get-go. "We want to do something that has never been done before," he told Davari and a group of IBMers at their first meeting. "let's work together to change the world." The movie The Matrix had just come out, and Kutaragi relished its premise of a world that is actually a giant computer simulation "Think about creating a crude version of that world," he said, "where millions of people can play in a realistically rendered virtual Tokyo or New Yourk City as if they are really living there." Creating that magical realm, Kutaragi told the team, would require a chip 1,000 times as powerful as the one in the PlayStation 2. The IBMers tried not to roll their eyes. They tended to like all that Matrix stuff, but when it came to 1,000-fold chip boosts, they thought Kutaragi was out of his mind."
"Davari tapped to lead the project was Kahle...He had designed IBM's first dual core chip, the Power4, and was just coming off a project that produced the IBM chip that powers Apple's G5 computers. "I don't want to do the normal stuff," he says with a shrug. Normal obviously want what Kutaragi had in mind. Still, one of Kahle's first moves was to talk Kutaragi down from that fantasy of a 1,000-fold power increase. Kahle figured a goal of a 100- fold boost from one chip generation to the next, having rarely if ever been achieved in the history of semiconductors, was ambitious enough."
"Kutaragi was incredibly demanding and repeatedly sent Kahle back to the drawing board. At one point about a year into the project, Kutaragi made the team scrap the whole system structure and start over nearly from scratch. Another time Kutaragi decided he wanted two more cores. Why? "He just wanted to squeeze the engineering team," expains Masakazu Suzuoki, Sony's top Cell engineer, wringing his hands as if strangling a snake. "it hurt your head," Kahle recalls. Making the pain worse: The team still had to deliver the chip on the original schedule."
"To this day, few people even inside the allied companies know the details of Cell's development or the high hopes its backers hold. The Cell engineers are still not supposed to talk about much of their work to anyone outside the Austin facility. One day the air-conditioning broke down in the lab, and as the temperature soared, the engineers propped open the doors. Word got around. The company had to post guards to turn back rubbernecking colleagues eager for a glimpse of what was going on in there."
"IBM, in paticular, says it's making headway in defense, medical imaging, internet switching, and industrial inspection equipment. The company suggests that the chip could be especially useful in crunching the mammoth amounts of data the military will collect as it develops so-called network-centric operations, where heavy armor is replaced by more perfect information--such as torrents of broadband video--that must be processed on the fly." |
The result, by the way, is a machine 34x as powerful as the PS2 theoretically.
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