04-06-2005 08:46									#1
	Civ4 Pre-Release Information - Discussion Thread Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This thread is for discussing everything related to the Information section of our website. Basically what we used the "Just the facts ma'am" thread for before: providing new info, pointing out mistakes or controversies in the existing info, or just general discussion about what's in Civ4.

Every time the Information section is updated, I will post a summary of the changes in the Update Thread.

Last edited by Locutus on 04-06-2005 at 08:59

	04-06-2005 08:56									#2
	Remove this text

Question: should I top this thread or is it enough if the update thread is topped?





For ease of reference I will post major updates here as well:

Two updates have been posted in the last few days:

June 1:
Official section added

June 4:
Updated everything with info from the new Barry Caudill interview:
- Overall design section expanded with paragraphs on accessibility and AI
- Added paragraph about reduced map sizes to Terrain section
- Added Keshik as Mongol UU and also a comment that all civs except the Babylonians have been spotted during or after E3 (Arabs and Aztec were mentioned in the interview), so that if the Greeks or any other Civs are included, it is very likely to be at the expense of the Babylonians
- Modding section renamed Modding & Scenarios and a comment added that the game will probably ship with a few built in scenarios
- Added Bonus vs Mounted and Bonus vs Melee for Pikeman and Axeman respectively in the Units
- The following quote: " you could have a bureaucratic vassal tribal government with a free religious system and a free-market economy" leads me to add bureacracy as Legal civic and Tribal Rule? as Government. Since Vassal and serf are more or less synonyms, I'm gonna assume that Barry referred to Serfdom when he spoke of 'Vassal', especially since Labor is the only category left (unless I placed one of the other four wrong, but it seems to make sense).
- added the tidbit that Barry worked on every Civ game since Civ2: MPG to the Development section
- the scenario editor is apparently called the World Builder, added this to the Modding section

Last edited by Locutus on 04-06-2005 at 09:09

	04-06-2005 13:41									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think there will be plenty of discussors coming over to keep this thread 'topped' on it's own account.

Is there any info yet on the max world size?

	04-06-2005 13:59									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Also, how about the issues that took up so much processing time in the past such as recalculating the trade routes every turn?

	04-06-2005 16:23									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think that it's enough with the main thread topped, and maybe link to this one in the first post. I think this thread will be near the top most of the time anyay.

	05-06-2005 19:26									#6
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Is it time to replace 'tech tree'?

It no longer behaves like a tree but as a net or web

	05-06-2005 19:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai and maybe link to this one in the first post.

Already there.

quote: I think this thread will be near the top most of the time anyay.

It was almost on page 2 before Myrddin posted. The level of discussion will probably increase rapidly over the next months, making this thread (temporarily) drop to page 2 before long. But since the other thread links to this one, I'll keep the situation as it is.

quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Is it time to replace 'tech tree'? It no longer behaves like a tree but as a net or web

Firaxis still uses a tree (my tree is an almost exact copy of the Firaxis tree as seen in the E3 video), and that *is* an accurate view. It's not like you can invent Combustion from the start... But I do hope Firaxis will eventually provide a way to display the tree properly and show the difference between AND and OR gates (more?) prominently...

	05-06-2005 20:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus But I do hope Firaxis will eventually provide a way to display the tree properly and show the difference between AND and OR gates (more?) prominently...

Are there different gates? I did not see that. The E3 interview sounded more like all gates are of the OR kind...

	05-06-2005 20:23									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Based on earlier information (from the various magazine previews) we know both kinds exist. Of course, that may have changed and they may only have OR gates now, but until we see proof of that I'm not gonna make any such assumption.

	06-06-2005 22:47									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

Updated the Information section with the latest info extracted from the Gamereactor video:

- Added comment that game speeds resemble accelerated production in section Game Speed
- Added to Combat that units of different types can be part of the same army and can be moved around as one.
- Added comment that at least 12 players are supported in MP and Civilizations sections
- Added to Civilizations section that every leader has two traits, listed the known traits of Militaristic?, Creative and Organized, added Asoka as second Indian leader and Memphis as Egyptian city
- Added to Terrain that only Jungle, Forest and Hills give defensive bonuses
- Added new Civics info: Organised Religion as Religious civic, Civil Service required for Bureaucracy
- Added info to Combat that the longer a unit is fortified, the bigger the defensive bonus it gets
- Added comment on moving units to UI section, as well as a comment that the UI is still very much under development so not much can be said about it yet and a comment that the entire UI is in Python
- Added comment on Sid's involvement to Development: that he comes down and plays MP and gives feedback and helps with mangament
- Replaced Fortress? with Castle and added effect comment to Walls and Castle, added moved Granary to the correct icon, added Barracks, removed question marks from Monestaries and Lighthouse
- Renamed Samarra Mosque to Spiral Minaret, removed question marks from Chichen Itza, Angkor Wat, renamed religion-specific Wonders to religion-specific Shrines
- Added Unit stats: 6? Strength for Swordsman, 8? for Axeman, 3? for Catapult, Axeman is a Melee units, Catapult a Siege Weapon, Axeman and Spearman cost 35 Hammers; added Mechanized Infantry, renamed Tank to Modern Armor, moved War Chariot to appropriate icon
- Added Generic Strength bonus promotions, confirmed and expanded Amphibious promotion
- Confirmed Chichen Itza as being granted by Civil Service, added Bureaucracy
- Added stats Grassland Hills, added 0% defense bonus where applicable, added Windmill to Tundra Hills
- Renamed Hunting Camp? to Camp
- Added 0 Gold to Copper, 7 Gold to Gold

Based on the PC Gamer info Platypus Rex posted, I also expanded the Great People info: there are about 100 in total and specialists gather Great People points, which determine what type of Great Person you get. But this latter point may turn out to be a misunderstanding, so I might remove that info again in a few hours.

	06-06-2005 23:36									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Firaxis still uses a tree (my tree is an almost exact copy of the Firaxis tree as seen in the E3 video), and that *is* an accurate view. It's not like you can invent Combustion from the start... But I do hope Firaxis will eventually provide a way to display the tree properly and show the difference between AND and OR gates (more?) prominently...

My impression is that there are only OR gates, not AND gates.

	07-06-2005 00:06									#12
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I hope that's not true. At least, I hope that's easily correctable/moddable.

	07-06-2005 00:32									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Oh, I'm sure it's moddable, they've said things to that effect, but I believe the default tech tree only contains OR gates.

	07-06-2005 19:20									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Locutus

Thanks for all the hard work, yu da man.

Akulla

	23-06-2005 15:55									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

importing or exporting Electrical Power



A new Idea :

It would be alot better if Electrical Power be exportable. (importing oil or uranium, producing electrical power and exporting it)
perhaps it should more improvements, like "Power Lines" in addition to Power Plants.

	23-06-2005 15:56									#16
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New Idea



Its better to let the Player define size of buildings and city improvements.perhaps larger improvements may have more effects and take more time to build.

for example : I build a library with size 2 because the city that builds it is small, or in my capital I say to build library size 7 because I want to have the largest library in the wotld (and the game tells which civilization has the biggest one).

or another example : I am persia, my biggest university is in pasargad with size 22, but America has university with size 24 in NewYork, Pasargad is building a great wonder so I tell the persepolis to expand its university from size 18 to 25.

the amount of shields depend on size exponentialy.

for example : building university size 8 takes 1280 shields but university of size 4 takes 320 shields, or size 1 takes 20 shields. (exponential values)


a thing similar to great wonders, but all of sizes is different and no limit on building them in any time ...

	23-06-2005 15:59									#17
	Tired of ads?

and another Idea : ( )

let the cities build things parallel , for example build a market place with a wrior , or a market place and a library (more product slots depend on size of cities)
building a wonder and a warior I dont think it is too bad ?! why not ?

where must we say our Ideas (if it is not tooooo late ? )

	23-06-2005 16:03									#18
	Got spare money?

Please post all your ideas in one post, it's getting really annoying when you post 3 ideas in the same thread with only a few minutes between them

	23-06-2005 19:29									#19
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quote: Adagio: Please post all your ideas in one post, it's getting really annoying when you post 3 ideas in the same thread with only a few minutes between them

ok Sorry

	24-06-2005 09:10									#20
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by mhkhosravi A new Idea : It would be alot better if Electrical Power be exportable. (importing oil or uranium, producing electrical power and exporting it) perhaps it should more improvements, like "Power Lines" in addition to Power Plants.

I like the sound of that. However, Electrical Power is modeled in the game as units of production. It may work if you were to, for example, build a nuclear power plant in your country ( ) then turn around and sell the excess production it gives you to your neighbors.

	02-09-2005 03:55									#21
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Hey guys,

Sorry, I've had a pretty hectic summer and have hardly been online in the past three months, so my information section (and other parts of the Civ4 site maintained by me) have fallen somewhat into disarray. I hope to be able to remedie this over the next weeks, though I'm still a bit busy so bear with me. Over the last day I've updated some of the sections of the Information section, I will probably continue doing this over the next week or so, until I'm up-to-date again. In order not to overwhelm everyone (since it's a pretty whopping huge update) I'll post intermediary progress reports here. Today I've done the following:


Civilizations
- Added table of personality traits
- Arabs: Saladin added, new flag
- Aztec: new flag, capital and cities added
- Babylonia: removed (no post-E3 evidence for their presence while there's evidence for 18 other civs)
- Chinese: new Shi Huangdi image, Cho Ko Nu added
- Egypt: new Hatshepsut image
- English: Elizabeth image added, Redcoat added, city names added
- French: new Louis XIV image, traits added for Louis XIV and Napoleon, flag added
- Greeks: added, Alexander added, flag added
- Incas: Huanca Capac added, flag added
- Japanese: Samurai added
- Mali: Mansa Musa added, cities added
- Mongols: Kublai Khan added, traits added for Genghis and Kublai, Keshik image added, new flag
- Persians: Cyrus added, Immortal added, cities added
- Romans: new Ceasar image
- Russians: Cossack added
- Spanish: cities added, Conquistador added
- Barbarian: cities added
- unknown (mongol-like) flag added, 'Babylonian' flag listed as unknown
- explanations on babylon and barbarians added

Victory Conditions
- Added number of points required for Culture Victory

Culture:
- Explained Cultural Victory
- Added explanation on how 'city flipping' works.

Diplomacy:
- Added paragraph on facial expressions

Fan Input:
- Updated number of testers
- Added quote from Soren

Modding and Scenarios:
- pretty much completely rewritten (courtesy largely of Game Developer Magazine)

	02-09-2005 16:33									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Good job Locutus.

	03-09-2005 05:07									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

no problem here

thanks for your dedication

	07-09-2005 22:36									#24
	Got spare money?

Very cool.