Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Bolivia on the verge of revolution?
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread   
Pages (11): [ <<   6   7   8   9   10   11   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
Thumbs up  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:10 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#241 Report this post to a moderator
It's Revolution Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The First Enlarged Meeting of the National Originaria* Peoples’ Assembly of Bolivia

The transnational oil corporations, North American imperialism and the treacherous rulers of the Bolivian state have plunged the whole nation into a deep political, economic and social crisis, with the country currently on the verge of total collapse. The aroused masses in the city of El Alto and throughout the country have a decisive role to play; to save the country through a peoples’ government elected from below and with real accountability.

For this reason, the first enlarged meeting of the Originaria National Peoples’ Assembly takes the following decisions:

1) That the city of El Alto be the General Headquarters of the Bolivian Revolution in the XXI century.

2) To create a United Leadership of the Originaria National Peoples’ Assembly as an INSTRUMENT OF POWER, at the head of the Federation of Neighbourhood Juntas of El Alto (FEJUVE), the Regional Workers’ Union of El Alto (COR), the Bolivian Workers’ Union (COB), the United Trade Union Confederation of Peasant Workers of Bolivia (CSUTCB), the Trade Union Confederation of Artisan Workers, Small Traders of Bolivia, the Trade Union Federation of Mine Workers of Bolivia, the Interprovincial Transport Federation of La Paz and the other mobilised social organisations in the interior of the country.

3) To create SUPPLY, SELF DEFENCE, PRESS AND POLITICAL Committees whose aim is to guarantee the success of the organised peoples’ organisations.

4) We reiterate that our struggle for the NATIONALISATION AND INDUSTRIALISATION OF HYDROCARBONS is non-negotiable.

5) To organise the formation of Peoples’ Assemblies in every department under the leadership of the COB, the Departmental Workers’ Federation, and the delegates elected from the rank and file in mass meetings and cabildos.

6) To reject all manoeuvres of the ruling class either through a constitutional succession or elections involving the same old “politicians”.

In the city of El Alto, this eighth day of June of two thousand and five.

[*NOTE: “Originaria” refers to the “original” inhabitants of the country before Spanish colonisation, i.e. the indigenous people.]

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#242 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yay! More havens for Drug cartels! Woot!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:19 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#243 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#244 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

"6) To reject all manoeuvres of the ruling class either through a constitutional succession or elections involving the same old “politicians”."

So if theres a free and fair election, and the folks they dislike win, they won't accept that.

I think that says it all.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:29
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#245 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

"To organise the formation of Peoples’ Assemblies in every department under the leadership of the COB, the Departmental Workers’ Federation, and the delegates elected from the rank and file in mass meetings and cabildos"


Ah, in mass meetings under their leadership, instead of by secret ballot. Secret ballot is such a reactionary imperialist tool, ya know?

Last edited by lord of the mark on 10-06-2005 at 22:36

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#246 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"To create SUPPLY, SELF DEFENCE, PRESS AND POLITICAL Committees whose aim is to guarantee the success of the organised peoples’ organisations."

whose aim will be to watch for political deviance, and crush dissent.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#247 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

well, at least we can look forward to some great Bolivian restaurants in DC, before this crew is done.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#248 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Apparently Diez went to the military with a plan to violently suppress the protesters and the military told him to **** off.


You can thank training recieved at the school of the Americas for that. Their goal has always been to teach Latin American military officials the proper role for the military in a democracy. Naturally, it is extremely hard to reteach people how to think in a 30 or 90 day class but they try their damnedest.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:35
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#249 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


You can thank training recieved at the school of the Americas for that. .


Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#250 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Nope, that's not true.


Che, Bolivia used to have a sea coast but it was taken from it by Chile in the late 19th century. The Bolivians didn't want to admite that the lose was perminent so they still officially keep a national navy at lake Titicaca although it only consists of a few rusted boats. Officially they are just waiting for the day they recover their lost coastline so the navy can triumphantly return.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:36 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#251 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark




chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:38 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#252 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Che, Bolivia used to have a sea coast but it was taken from it by Chile in the late 19th century.


Did you look at the map I provided? My disagreement with LC was whether Peru was the only one of Bolivia's neighbors that hadn't beaten up on it. Peru has beaten up on Bolivia (though they were allies in The War of the Pacific).

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#253 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

so. If there are to be new elections, wont it be expected that all parties will agree to respect the results, (as long as they are certified by international observers)? Why should the govt, the congress, or the military agree to new elections under any other circumstances?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#254 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Did you look at the map I provided? My disagreement with LC was whether Peru was the only one of Bolivia's neighbors that hadn't beaten up on it. Peru has beaten up on Bolivia (though they were allies in The War of the Pacific).


How did your map show that Peru had beaten up on Bolivia?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#255 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin

You can thank training recieved at the school of the Americas for that. Their goal has always been to teach Latin American military officials the proper role for the military in a democracy. Naturally, it is extremely hard to reteach people how to think in a 30 or 90 day class but they try their damnedest.



ROTFLMAO

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#256 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

lotm, #1 the population is voting with its feet. #2, the electoral process in Bolivia apparently disenfranchises the Indians to some extent, which would then cast sserious doubts on the legitimacy of the results. #3, if the majority of the population supports the revolution, why should they limit themselves to a process that is stacked against them?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#257 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
How did your map show that Peru had beaten up on Bolivia?


Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#258 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious


Like double digit inflation? That's nuts. Markets don't **** with people. They just **** up. So you fix them. Period.


http://inflationdata.com/inflation/...n_currentPage=2

The inflation rates were all single digit until 1979 but Carter ended price controls in 1976. It was won of his first moves upon entering office. The price rises in rents as landlords raised rents to market conditions happened almost over night and were certainly in place after 1 year leases were up in 1977. Don't you think it is stretching the truth to try and blame oil related inflation in 1979 (the Iranian revolution ran up oil prices) for the ending of price controls? Especially since the price control related inflation was all factored in two years before?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#259 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.


Technically all of Bolivia used to be part of Peru.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#260 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So Oerdin, would you care to revise your "School of the Americas" comment?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:47
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#261 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
lotm, #1 the population is voting with its feet. #2, the electoral process in Bolivia apparently disenfranchises the Indians to some extent, which would then cast sserious doubts on the legitimacy of the results. #3, if the majority of the population supports the revolution, why should they limit themselves to a process that is stacked against them?


1. I dont buy voting with its feet. I dont know how many marched, if theyre a majority, if they were pressured to march whatever. Theres a reason elections by secret ballot are essential to democracy.
2. Deatils on the electoral process - ive seen mention of demands for more indian representation, but ive seen no details of the existing system.
3. They have a right to demand changes to ensure a fair election. A system that does not respect the will of the majority as expressed in an election, and is based on mass meetings rather than the secret ballot will NOT empower the majority, but rather will empower the vanguard party. We've seen the consequences of that many times over the last 87 years.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#262 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.


looking at the map, I see the southwest, gone to Chile, the southeast gone to Paraguay, and the north gone to Brazil. I dont see anything gone to Peru. (and BTW, the Gran Chaco was always disputed between Bolivia and Paraguay, IIUC - I wonder if the mapmaker is unbiased)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:51 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#263 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

The mapmaker was an American or Brit from 1863.

The Peru - Bolivian border is different.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#264 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon

ROTFLMAO


Now I realize you are appalingly ignorant on just about every subject but try to think a little for us in this one case. Why do you suppose the Bolivian military is behaving so radically different from its tried and true method of simply shooting all of the protesters? Could it be that the influence of the school of the Americas and the OAS with its Democracy building campaign are actually succeeding in their stated goals? You know, the ones they've been working with Bolivia over for the last 35-40 years.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#265 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin

Now I realize you are appalingly ignorant on just about every subject but try to think a little for us in this one case. Why do you suppose the Bolivian military is behaving so radically different from its tried and true method of simply shooting all of the protesters? Could it be that the influence of the school of the Americas and the OAS with its Democracy building campaign are actually succeeding in their stated goals? You know, the ones they've been working with Bolivia over for the last 35-40 years.


**** man. You are normally quite reasonable, but this is just ****ing looney. Even LOTM is laughing and he's on your side.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#266 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/papa/pacific1879.htm

quote:

War of the Pacific, Spanish GUERRA DEL PACÍFICO (1879-83), conflict involving Chile, Bolivia, and Peru, which resulted in Chilean annexation of valuable disputed territory on the Pacific coast. It grew out of a dispute between Chile and Bolivia over control of a part of the Atacama Desert that lies between the 23rd and 26th parallels on the Pacific coast of South America. The territory contained valuable mineral resources, particularly sodium nitrate.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#267 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


**** man. You are normally quite reasonable, but this is just ****ing looney. Even LOTM is laughing and he's on your side.


Why not ask LotM? I believe he gave a thumbs up because an organization you normally vilify has actually help teach the Bolivian military that it isn't ok to run around shooting anti-government protesters. There is an irony in you vilify the SotA then prassing the results of their work.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#268 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

BTW I'd like to say I'm sorry for calling you ignorant. You aren't ignorant just misguided.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 22:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#269 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Yeah, and what's the end result of that? The people still don't have clean drinking water because they stupidly demanded that everyone get treated water for free. In order to establish a utility network pipes must be laid, pumping stations built, chemicals bought, engineers hired, workers hired, etc... That all costs money then you have to maintain the system which costs still more money.


From Wiki
quote:
In September 2001, following the advice of the World Bank, the Bolivian government declared that all water was to become corporate property, so that even drawing water from community wells or gathering rainwater on their own properties, peasants and urban dwellers had to first purchase and obtain permits from International Water Limited (a multinational largely owned by the Bechtel Corporation). The government, however, retracted and abolished the new water privatization rules following wide-scales uprisings and riots in protest of the legislation.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 10-06-2005 23:00 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#270 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/papa/pacific1879.htm


No one disagrees, why are you harping on this?

 
Pages (11): [ <<   6   7   8   9   10   11   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:34.
Apolyton Time is 00:34.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0688 seconds (92.44% PHP - 7.56% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net