10-06-2005 00:17									#181
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He also began the funding of what would become the Contras, Somoza's old National Guard. He also funded RENAMO, UNITA, and the mujahedeen in Afganistan before the Soviet intervention.

Ah, Mozambique. That brings us back on topic.

Bolivia 2011 - Pres. Evo Morales institutes free market reforms, is hailed by US President Rodham. Guardian (et al) denounce further spread of globalization.

	10-06-2005 03:47									#182
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quote: You spoke of the Indians as if they constituted the majority in Santa Cruz, and you ridiculed the idea the business elite were the majority. Unless those are the only groups in SC, the obvious fact that a business elite won't be the majority doesn't support the notion that the Indians are the majority. The beauty miss's claim about people being white in her part of the country rather suggests the indigenous element is smaller than in the highlands

It's not clear that this is true. I guess you can draw a line somewhere in Bolivia, but it would be a patently dishonest exercise.

And the government is so aware of the people's love for it that it has moved 700km away from La Paz to meet in Sucre in order to install someone almost no Bolivians want as leader.

	10-06-2005 03:50									#183
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Looks like Vaca Diaz is opposed by 84% of the population. Interestingly, it also appears that there is deep resistance in the military to the idea that they might have to violently suppress the protests.

	10-06-2005 03:54									#184
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And predictably (in Spanish, but not hard to get the idea)

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2005/may...31/027n2mun.php

	10-06-2005 03:54									#185
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That's about Paraguay, dude.

	10-06-2005 03:56									#186
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http://www.neravt.com/left/hotspots/bolivia.htm
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/

	10-06-2005 03:59									#187
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Holy Lake Titicaca! Dual power may be arising in Bolivia. Definately looks like a revolutionary situation.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/st.../6/9/2014/37723

	10-06-2005 04:02									#188
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I know that's about Paraguay. It seems to suggest that Paraguay will now allow unlimited numbers of US troops access to that country. Perhaps it's nothing....


The protesters have reached Sucre and are fighting with the police. Apparently the session of parliament was cancelled and it looks like Diaz may have lost.

quote: Today's Session of Bolivian Congress Suspended by Vaca Diez By Luis Gomez, Posted on Thu Jun 9th, 2005 at 06:04:01 PM EST We said so a few hours ago: that the Congressional session in Sucre to consider President Carlos Mesa’s resignation was not going to happen. A few minutes ago, Senator Hormando Vaca Diez, president of the Congress, suspended all legislative work, without any date or time given to resume it, faced with the situation in the Bolivian capital. This could be the end of Hormando Vaca Diez’s political career, and who knows what else. A contingent of peasant farmers has reached the outside of the Sucre airport and announced that they will not permit any member of Congress to leave the city. The first confrontations have already begun in Sucre. The mineworkers and students of Sucre are now combating the police near Plaza 25 de Mayo. The uniformed officers are responding with tear gas and with bullets fired at those setting off dynamite. And while throughout the entire country, hunger strikes grow against the possible presidency of Hormando Vaca Diez, he suspended the session and ran away to hide.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/st.../6/9/1841/31035

	10-06-2005 04:03									#189
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Today's Session of Bolivian Congress Suspended by Vaca Diez
By Luis Gomez,
Posted on Thu Jun 9th, 2005 at 06:04:01 PM EST
We said so a few hours ago: that the Congressional session in Sucre to consider President Carlos Mesa’s resignation was not going to happen. A few minutes ago, Senator Hormando Vaca Diez, president of the Congress, suspended all legislative work, without any date or time given to resume it, faced with the situation in the Bolivian capital.

This could be the end of Hormando Vaca Diez’s political career, and who knows what else. A contingent of peasant farmers has reached the outside of the Sucre airport and announced that they will not permit any member of Congress to leave the city.

The first confrontations have already begun in Sucre. The mineworkers and students of Sucre are now combating the police near Plaza 25 de Mayo. The uniformed officers are responding with tear gas and with bullets fired at those setting off dynamite.

And while throughout the entire country, hunger strikes grow against the possible presidency of Hormando Vaca Diez, he suspended the session and ran away to hide.

	10-06-2005 04:03									#190
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Great Minds...

	10-06-2005 04:03									#191
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Grrrr

	10-06-2005 04:05									#192
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Interestingly special forces were responsible for the shooting of a miner. But the military are making it clear that they aren't involved with that.

	10-06-2005 04:07									#193
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I wonder what the ramifications for this will be in Latin America. Revolutions have a tendency to spread. Ecuador is already in a pre-revolutionary situation, and then there's Venezuela.

	10-06-2005 04:07									#194
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Grrrr

DanSed!!!

Now where are some of our oligarchy defending fellow posters....

	10-06-2005 04:08									#195
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I wonder what the ramifications for this will be in Latin America. Revolutions have a tendency to spread. Ecuador is already in a pre-revolutionary situation, and then there's Venezula.

	10-06-2005 04:10									#196
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A comment from a BBC viewer (American)

quote: I am a mining company executive returning to the US from Bolivia. While my project was in the hinterlands and not in La Paz, our office is headquartered in La Paz and the situation there is getting steadily worse according to my associates. This whole mess started when the US asked Bolivia to quit growing Coca which they did. When Bolivia asked for help for alternative incomes for the coca growers Bush said no and here we are. This would never have happened if the US had helped develop another sustainable employment for them. Another failure of American diplomacy.

Is the coca thing true?

	10-06-2005 04:13									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon A comment from a BBC viewer (American) quote: I am a mining company executive returning to the US from Bolivia. While my project was in the hinterlands and not in La Paz, our office is headquartered in La Paz and the situation there is getting steadily worse according to my associates. This whole mess started when the US asked Bolivia to quit growing Coca which they did. When Bolivia asked for help for alternative incomes for the coca growers Bush said no and here we are. This would never have happened if the US had helped develop another sustainable employment for them. Another failure of American diplomacy. Is the coca thing true?

Very likely. This presents a great danger to the revolution, since Bush will likely use it as an excuse to invade.

	10-06-2005 04:13									#198
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Y'know if all the whitey educated people say they'll leave, I reckon the rest of Bolivia should call them on it.

Uncle Fidel has lots of well educated people who he'll lend them for a bit of gas.

	10-06-2005 04:17									#199
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That assumes Bolivia can export it's gas. If it's blockaded by its neighbors . . . Also, I don't know how many gas experts Cuba has, not being a major source of it. Angola, perhaps, and Venezuela.

	10-06-2005 04:18									#200
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That assumes Bolivia can export it's gas. If it's blockaded by its neighbors . . .

You think the poor people in those countries would stand for that?

	10-06-2005 04:22									#201
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Apparently Diez went to the military with a plan to violently suppress the protesters and the military told him to **** off.

	10-06-2005 04:28									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: You spoke of the Indians as if they constituted the majority in Santa Cruz, and you ridiculed the idea the business elite were the majority. Unless those are the only groups in SC, the obvious fact that a business elite won't be the majority doesn't support the notion that the Indians are the majority. The beauty miss's claim about people being white in her part of the country rather suggests the indigenous element is smaller than in the highlands It's not clear that this is true.[/q] What is not clear to be true? [q] I guess you can draw a line somewhere in Bolivia, but it would be a patently dishonest exercise. And the government is so aware of the people's love for it that it has moved 700km away from La Paz to meet in Sucre in order to install someone almost no Bolivians want as leader.

That just might relate to the fact that Sucre is the official capital?


I'll have to admit that the commies glee is rather amusing ...

	10-06-2005 04:28									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You think the poor people in those countries would stand for that?

It depends. The poor don't seem to have a lot of power in Chile or Paraguay, and aren't terribly organized in Argentina, despite their militancy. The revolution in Peru has been defeated for now, and Brazil is no good just for geographical reasons.

	10-06-2005 04:29									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist That just might relate to the fact that Sucre is the official capital?

Sucre is one of two capitals, much like The Hauge and Amsterdamn in the Netherlands.

	10-06-2005 04:34									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist That just might relate to the fact that Sucre is the official capital? I'll have to admit that the commies glee is rather amusing ...

They ran away, because the protesters shut down La Paz. Now they've shut down the airport at Sucre.

Aren't you gleeful when a group of unrepresentative swill like the Bolivian establishment get their comeuppance.

In other hilarious news, the US blamed all this on Chavez, citing Evo Morales' (whose MAS isn't even with the protesters) admiration for Chavez and desire to get help from him.

I guess this means that Bush is in league with North Korea, because the North Koreans have asked for aid on occasion.

	10-06-2005 04:35									#206
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The MAS better get with the protesters fast, but like most Mensheviks, they will side with capital when push comes to shove.

	10-06-2005 04:35									#207
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It depends. The poor don't seem to have a lot of power in Chile or Paraguay, and aren't terribly organized in Argentina, despite their militancy. The revolution in Peru has been defeated for now, and Brazil is no good just for geographical reasons.

They have the same power everywhere, if they get irritated enough. Reading about Bolivia makes it clear that the people are not just annoyed, they're severely pissed at the government.

	10-06-2005 04:36									#208
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Sucre is one of two capitals, much like The Hauge and Amsterdamn in the Netherlands.

The Dutch seem to insist that Amsterdam (is your extra 'n' supposed to be funny?) is the capital wheras The Hague is merely the seat of gov't. The rest of Europe is mystified.


It seems Díez has just about everyone against him. Both Mesa and the Catholic church has called for him to decline the presidency.

	10-06-2005 04:37									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist It seems Díez has just about everyone against him. Both Mesa and the Catholic church has called for him to decline the presidency.

That's because he's a major league ******* who wants to use the military to violently suppress the protesters.

	10-06-2005 04:37									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist (is your extra 'n' supposed to be funny?)

it was unintentional, though now that I think about it, it is funny.