10-06-2005 04:01									#31
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quote: Upgrade cheapo ships? Just Decommission them.

I mean cranking out cheapo 2-1-4 and 2-1-6 ships and upgrading them the next turn so that you essentially use money to get your navy, not minerals.

	10-06-2005 04:04									#32
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And I don't get how navies in C3 didn't serve a useful purpose...

	10-06-2005 04:08									#33
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They couldn't be used to destroy enemy economy by disrupting trade routes or his food gathering. All they could do is bombard coastal cities to soften them up, but what's the point. Why would you waste any resources on ships instead of land units, other than the ships you need to get those land units in place?

	10-06-2005 04:23									#34
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They didn't disrupt trade routes in SMAC/X either, AFAIK, since there were no trade routes. And in C3 it actually is possible to use ships to blockade a nation.

quote: All they could do is bombard coastal cities to soften them up, but what's the point. Why would you waste any resources on ships instead of land units, other than the ships you need to get those land units in place?

To protect those land units?

Because "softening up" is really important?

	10-06-2005 04:32									#35
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The only sort of 'real' trade routes you have in SMAC is a crawler bringing in one nut/min/energy to another base.

	10-06-2005 04:56									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker And I don't get how navies in C3 didn't serve a useful purpose...

Bring land units across water?

	10-06-2005 05:00									#37
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eh, that's my point. They did serve a useful purpose.

	10-06-2005 05:47									#38
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It was pretty limited, tho. As soon as you've got one foothold on an enemy continent, you can fly in unlimited amounts of mechanized units, which leaves little incentive to maintain naval superiority in the late industrial and modern eras.

	10-06-2005 05:59									#39
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Only with an airport, at the very end of the industrial era. And only once you've built the airport.

Though I agree airlifting is majorly broken in C3.

	10-06-2005 08:16									#40
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quote: Though I agree airlifting is majorly broken in C3.

Airlifts should be executed WITH units. Funny how those airports funciton more as teleporters.

	10-06-2005 16:05									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Only with an airport, at the very end of the industrial era. And only once you've built the airport.

I don't know about you, but rushing an Airport is a top priority when I establish a foothold on a foreign continent.

	10-06-2005 17:05									#42
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I played most of my CIV3 games without even caring about a Navy...And I always made coast cities a priority...

When you don't bother with navies at all, something is wack.

	10-06-2005 18:43									#43
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i loved to build use battle groups of 6 battleships 1 sub and 2 carriers to protect my shore (one group for ever shore area) and send those with your transporters to attack other continets

	10-06-2005 18:47									#44
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Being able to name individual BBs was also a good feature!

	10-06-2005 18:54									#45
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i never understood the destroyer in civ3 (or cruiser probably both) because they were take much more effective then ironclads except in speed...so as soon as i could build BB (always pretty fast after CA or DD) i alsways used my dedicated naval cities to only build DD and nukesubs...only until the aegis cruiser they start getting replaced

	10-06-2005 22:52									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Finally getting a Frigate, and then a handful of turns later, Ironclads appearing, just its too fast.

That is one of the issues I am addressing in my mod.

	10-06-2005 22:55									#47
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i tried to adress it with some of my own edits, but it always seemed to make a bug to crash the game

i should load up my civ 3. i'm discouraged tho because someone stole my copy of PTW (literally, broke into my house, and took the CD rack i had PTW in. Left the computer and Civ3 tho )

	10-06-2005 23:00									#48
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword i never understood the destroyer in civ3 (or cruiser probably both) because they were take much more effective then ironclads except in speed...so as soon as i could build BB (always pretty fast after CA or DD) i alsways used my dedicated naval cities to only build DD and nukesubs...only until the aegis cruiser they start getting replaced

Well I think a DD attacks much better than an ironclad, and the move is so much better...speed = good.

The thing is, the Cruiser (CA) defends a LOT better than a Destroyer. So I use Cruisers to defend Carriers and Transports, and leave the DD's for sub screening and patrol.

I like that one aspect of naval warfare in C3, as I think it is a reasonable simulation of the specialized role of modern warships. DD's for patrol, CA's for escort...AEGIS can do it all.

	11-06-2005 00:05									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker And I don't get how navies in C3 didn't serve a useful purpose...

I agree


nothing better than a carrier or two, filled with bombers
to reek avoc on someones interior

and then the occasional battleship for the coasties

and subs outside the enemies harbor

Navies are a ggod thing

	11-06-2005 00:09									#50
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carriers with stealth bombers were ALOT of fun.

but up untill then, I agree with some that navies did little more than protect transports, and possibly explore.

	11-06-2005 02:37									#51
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Well I hope the subs wont be as tricky as they were in civ3, at least in my version. I used subs for recon mainly and just to scan the seas. In many cases when my sub was at sentry, a foreign frigate came on the same tile and declared automatically war! Thats how I got to conquer the entire world, without breaking a single peace treaty myself :P.

Anyway, I hope that foreign ships will be able to enter same tiles as my subs do without engaging into combat with them, thats what happens in reality, if the subs dont take initiative.

Tomasz

	11-06-2005 02:41									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot carriers with stealth bombers were ALOT of fun. but up untill then, I agree with some that navies did little more than protect transports, and possibly explore.

Eh, historically, what did navies do except protect transports and explore?

	11-06-2005 02:43									#53
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quote: Its just annoying to give up prime land to have a coastal city.

That's why we need flexible city radii.

	11-06-2005 03:34									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman That's why we need flexible city radii.

We do. Just pull the worker off that tile, and let another city work that same tile instead.

	11-06-2005 03:35									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Tomasz Well I hope the subs wont be as tricky as they were in civ3, at least in my version. I used subs for recon mainly and just to scan the seas. In many cases when my sub was at sentry, a foreign frigate came on the same tile and declared automatically war! Thats how I got to conquer the entire world, without breaking a single peace treaty myself :P. Tomasz

I have always thought that was a bug. Is it?

	11-06-2005 14:16									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Eh, historically, what did navies do except protect transports and explore?

Predate and project power beyond the local boundaries of a state ?

	11-06-2005 18:53									#57
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In short: showing the banner.

	11-06-2005 21:13									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Eh, historically, what did navies do except protect transports and explore?

Protect shipping lanes?

	12-06-2005 05:41									#59
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What travels along shipping lanes? (Transports.)

	12-06-2005 05:42									#60
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Predate and project power beyond the local boundaries of a state ?

Didn't they need troops to actually project power, though?