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KyuuA4 is offline KyuuA4
Chieftain

Jun 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:28
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quote:
could it sneek up to a battleship and board it


And get beaten up by a crew of say... 600 - 1000 sailors? With guns... knives... and Kung Fu..

quote:
Now is that an idea anyone brought up...Boarding?


It's more fun to blow things up with cannons and other explosive means.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninot
unless i'm wrong, the lookouts/crew about a modern ship would spot a trireme approaching and just open up with one of the minor cannons.

They don't always need their high tech toys to destroy small things.


True, to disable a trireme a hefty water cannon would do the trick. After all it´s what the merchant ships use against pirates in the South-Chinese Sea

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
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Jan 2004
time: 06:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 15:40
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Don't those use guns in return?

DerSchwarzfalke is offline DerSchwarzfalke
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USA
Jul 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 19:48 Visit DerSchwarzfalke's homepage!
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The pirates of the South China Sea only use small arms and depend on sneaking up to the ship to board it. They are not your stereotypical Caribbean pirates with broadsides ready to tear you and yours to shreds. Small arms of course are ineffective against ships until you are on board them, so water cannons are a surprisingly effective defense.

trausch is offline trausch
Settler

Nov 2004
time: 05:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 19:57
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quote:
Originally posted by KyuuA4


And get beaten up by a crew of say... 600 - 1000 sailors? With guns... knives... and Kung Fu..



It's more fun to blow things up with cannons and other explosive means.


The real question that has come up is that can a wooden boat sneak up on a modern war ship and cause damage. Let's see, didn't a bunch of guys in a wooden boat sneak up and blast a hole in the side of the USS Cole a class of destroyer? Probably one of the most advanced ships in the world?

DeathByTheSword is offline DeathByTheSword
King
soon to be a major religion
Nov 2001
time: 05:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 20:02
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that would mean they had to invent gunpowder and explosives first...and then you would atleast already have magnatism so no need for trireme anymore

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke
An idea for galleys I would like is to give them a certain "range" from one of your ports, beyond which they sink just as if they did not end the turn in coastal waters. This can be extended with the Great Lighthouse wonder or with utilizing the ports of friends and allies, but I think it would serve the purpose of making the Age of Exploration period more a time of actual exploration. How many galleys after all circumnavigated major continents? This combined with added moves to caravels and other late age ships should open up the naval sphere enormously.


that's boring. I like moving my galleys along coastlines in the early game. 'tis fun

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke
The pirates of the South China Sea only use small arms and depend on sneaking up to the ship to board it.


FYI, 'guns' can refer to small arms as well.
Do you think me so naïve to assume that todays' pirates still sail with frigates onto the seas?

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 23:49
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An article on the issue

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/...28/daily83.html

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 03:58
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This has gone slightly off-topic.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 04:17
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As it inevitably does when the subject is exhausted...

KyuuA4 is offline KyuuA4
Chieftain

Jun 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 05:43
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quote:
The real question that has come up is that can a wooden boat sneak up on a modern war ship and cause damage. Let's see, didn't a bunch of guys in a wooden boat sneak up and blast a hole in the side of the USS Cole a class of destroyer? Probably one of the most advanced ships in the world?


However, that kamikaze attack did not sink the ship. Therefore, the wooden boat lost.

Plus the ship was not in a state of alert. It was on port for refueling.

Wise Ass is offline Wise Ass
Warlord
Your Mom's House... Why?
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 08:55 Visit Wise Ass's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You realize that being based on the same engine as Pirates! is (not quite the same thing as you said) doesn't mean that the naval stuff is at all similar, right?


Yea, I forgot that they didn't build the engine for Pirates! Which could have made a difference but not in all cases. But I hear some of the leaders are going to look oddly farmilliar

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 16-06-2005 09:06
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The engine really has very little to do with the actual gameplay.

Wise Ass is offline Wise Ass
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Your Mom's House... Why?
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 16-06-2005 09:25 Visit Wise Ass's homepage!
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It can if it was designed for that specifically. But obviously this is not the case. And Pirates and civ would not be that case usually either unless enough of the game code was used.

Other than forgetting that the engine used wasn't designed for Pirates! I also wasn't thinking about the difference in combat systems.

Platypus Rex is offline Platypus Rex

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Give Blood..Give Life- just 20 min.. Woodland,CA
Sep 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 01:06 Visit Platypus Rex<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by trausch


The real question that has come up is that can a wooden boat sneak up on a modern war ship and cause damage. Let's see, didn't a bunch of guys in a wooden boat sneak up and blast a hole in the side of the USS Cole a class of destroyer? Probably one of the most advanced ships in the world?



Great memory trausch

This has not gone to far off topic Kuciwalker

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 01:56
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Boarding a BB from a galley would suffer some speed-related problems ...

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
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The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 02:02
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Yes, the BB should be so willing to come close to the galley on it's ow accord.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 02:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wise Ass
It can if it was designed for that specifically.


Engines are very often not designed specifically for one game. That's the entire point of an engine, that you can build many different games on top of it.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
  Old Post 23-06-2005 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker


IIRC the Greeks and Romans had marines that were used to board other ships..




No they didn't.

Mace is offline Mace
Warlord
Trade Empire of the Carthaginians
Nov 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-06-2005 22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom



No they didn't.


I don't want to second guess you, I have seen you post before about Roman/Greeks so I know you have knowledge... but are you sure about that?

I've seen lots o' movies where the Romans used catapults and ballistae from their galley, and then closed and boarded the other vessel with soldiers.

Maybe the movies are inaccurate. If they are, I'd like to know it. But how else could they win a naval battle? Archers? Fire arrows? I know for a fact that the ramming tactic, glorified in movies, was actually seldom used and was a weapon of last resort.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
  Old Post 23-06-2005 23:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace


I don't want to second guess you, I have seen you post before about Roman/Greeks so I know you have knowledge... but are you sure about that?

I've seen lots o' movies where the Romans used catapults and ballistae from their galley, and then closed and boarded the other vessel with soldiers.

Maybe the movies are inaccurate. If they are, I'd like to know it. But how else could they win a naval battle? Archers? Fire arrows? I know for a fact that the ramming tactic, glorified in movies, was actually seldom used and was a weapon of last resort.



There's a difference between infantry and marines, yes ?

And a difference between the navy and the marines ?

As far as I can recall, the Romans used their ships to transport the army, and sailors on Roman ships were also fighters, so that they had a dual role, rather than being specifically 'marines'.

I suspect that when you think of marines you think one thing, and I think another.

This might assist:

" Classification

InfantryInfantry (or Infantrymen) are soldiers who fight primarily on foot, using personal weapons. They may arrive on scene in various ways, and are deployed either in formations or as skirmishers and guerillas. In the modern period, the term "infantryman" is reserved for the most basic of infantry troops, the rifleman....


Not all soldiers are infantry, and not all infantry are soldiers. Infantry that are not soldiers include members of the RAF Regiment of the United Kingdom (technically they are airmen not soldiers), and members of the Royal Marines.

The Corps of Royal Marines, usually just known as the Royal Marines (RM), are the United Kingdom's amphibious forces and a core component of the country's Rapid Reaction Force. They are lightly equipped, able to operate independently in all terrains, and highly trained as a commando force....

...of the United Kingdom, or other marine forces (who are marines not soldiers; in fact many marines bristle at being called soldiers). Finally, many navies maintain naval infantry, who are sailors not soldiers. "

http://www.wikimirror.com/Soldier

Shigga is offline Shigga
Settler

Mar 2005
time: 05:34
  Old Post 24-06-2005 14:42 Visit Shigga's homepage!
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erm... b2t pls?

I would definitely like to see more emphasis on marine/marine and marine/land combat... the "teleport-Airport" was a neat feature for rushers like me but it was also definitely imbalanced.

Marine bombardement should become more effective, as well as bombing runs with aircraft. In CivIII the carrier is little more than eyecandy and a nice-to-have thing, would be great if they changed that. Civ could be so much more on the strategic side if they had balanced land/air/marine combat better imho.

Platypus Rex is offline Platypus Rex

King
Give Blood..Give Life- just 20 min.. Woodland,CA
Sep 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-06-2005 22:24 Visit Platypus Rex<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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as far as naval tatics go...
would "ramming speed" be out of the question

Mace is offline Mace
Warlord
Trade Empire of the Carthaginians
Nov 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 26-06-2005 09:56
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
There's a difference between infantry and marines, yes ?


I think we are thinking the same way, the difference is in the semantics...

Rome did have special legions called "Milites Classiarri" or "soldiers of the fleet". These guys fought on land as well,.

 
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