09-06-2005 04:49									#1
	Trireme vs Battleship Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

One of the silliest fights Civ could ever produce. Always entertaining to see cannons from a battleship trying to be countered by puny little spears thrown from a trireme - yet the trireme's effort remains futile.

With Civ 4, I hope this is still possible.

	09-06-2005 05:20									#2
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Your comments are neither cute, clever, or funny.

	09-06-2005 05:57									#3
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From what info there is Kyuu(less), a tireme with a strength of 2 would do 2 damage each time it hit. A battleship with a strength of 25 would do 25 damage each time. Strengths are hypothetical, but damage=strength.

	09-06-2005 06:17									#4
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Well, we have it confirmed that Firepower is KIND of back-in that the strength of a unit is related to how much damage a unit does-as suggested by Jaybe (and, I assume, each 'man' (hp) which makes up a unit can take a certain amount of damage before dying). This means that a Trireme-like a spearman-would be unlikely to get in more than a single hit before being wiped off the map by a modern unit.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	09-06-2005 07:20									#5
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Does anyone know how naval units will look btw? Will there be multiple figures representing HP's too? Having four carriers on a single tile seems like quite alot, doesn't it?

	09-06-2005 08:07									#6
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quote: Originally posted by alva Does anyone know how naval units will look btw? Will there be multiple figures representing HP's too? Having four carriers on a single tile seems like quite alot, doesn't it?

I'm curious as well. I play a lot of Naval Warfare during my Civ play.

	09-06-2005 11:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by alva Does anyone know how naval units will look btw? Will there be multiple figures representing HP's too? Having four carriers on a single tile seems like quite alot, doesn't it?

I'm hoping for variable amounts of cosmetic damage on one large ship.

Ships with broken masts, holes in the hull, scorch marks, etc, limping back to port

	09-06-2005 11:53									#8
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Naval warfare better be baller, I mean it's based on the PIRATES! engine for crying out loud!

	09-06-2005 11:58									#9
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You realize that being based on the same engine as Pirates! is (not quite the same thing as you said) doesn't mean that the naval stuff is at all similar, right?

	09-06-2005 13:58									#10
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quote: Originally posted by alva Does anyone know how naval units will look btw? Will there be multiple figures representing HP's too? Having four carriers on a single tile seems like quite alot, doesn't it?

Sofar, all the ships we've seen on screenshots were single.

	09-06-2005 18:51									#11
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Personally, I'm hoping for the return of spearman-kills-battleship.

Seriously, I never got why such flukes so upset people.

	09-06-2005 18:56									#12
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Yeah, the ships seen in the screenies are single. Groups of 4 battleships and carriers at a time would be too big indeed.

	09-06-2005 21:12									#13
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But destroyers might be good.

	09-06-2005 21:46									#14
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I just hope there is a unit between sailing ships and modern ships. (more than just Ironclads) Like a steam frigate, or protected cruiser, or something.

Galleons to Transports = wrong

	09-06-2005 22:44									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Mace I just hope there is a unit between sailing ships and modern ships. (more than just Ironclads) Like a steam frigate, or protected cruiser, or something. Galleons to Transports = wrong

I hope that sailing ships get used for -alot- longer than Civ 3 had them used.

Finally getting a Frigate, and then a handful of turns later, Ironclads appearing, just its too fast.

	09-06-2005 22:55									#16
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Yeah, the Age of Sail is ridiculously compressed in CivIII.

	09-06-2005 23:17									#17
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Navies should be far more useful than they have been in previous versions.

I want to see sailing ships around for longer, and to
see a midway unit between wood and steel hulls!

	09-06-2005 23:28									#18
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There are naval tile improvements, which automatically makes navies more useful than in Civ3 at least.

	09-06-2005 23:55									#19
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there are naval tile improvements in SMAC and naval(combat) units are still among the top 'luxury' units that youd only build when way ahead.

	10-06-2005 00:26									#20
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That's because navies are expensive in SMAC. Good ships cost a lot of minerals, and building cheapo ships and upgrading them costs a lot of money. But the navies in SMAC can serve a very useful purpose, genreally unlike Civ3.

	10-06-2005 00:50									#21
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units on a naval chassis or naval units with attack\defense as primary role aka battleship\carrier? except for capturing a sea base or some odd-job air units cannot do,i never use naval units in the role they are historically used for

	10-06-2005 00:50									#22
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Battleships and aircraft carriers aren't entirely cheap in Civ3 either tho. If your in a dedicated land war, you dont have the resources to do it as much.

Now that I think of it, something i'd like to see is give the ability of Cities on Rivers to build ships on whatever sea the river leads to. Doesnt make sense to me that only coast cities can build ships.

	10-06-2005 00:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Solver That's because navies are expensive in SMAC. Good ships cost a lot of minerals, and building cheapo ships and upgrading them costs a lot of money. But the navies in SMAC can serve a very useful purpose, genreally unlike Civ3.

Also, ships in SMAC are vulnerable to aerial attack. That won't be the case for CivIV ships for much of the game.

	10-06-2005 01:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Now that I think of it, something i'd like to see is give the ability of Cities on Rivers to build ships on whatever sea the river leads to. Doesnt make sense to me that only coast cities can build ships.

A few things to consider:
It would have to be limited to river depth
Type ship/vessel


When was the last time a carrier went down river?

	10-06-2005 01:41									#25
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True enough, most ships cant go very far up or down a river nowadays.


But older ships could. Maybe it could be restricted to 1 or 2 tiles.

Its just annoying to give up prime land to have a coastal city.

	10-06-2005 01:49									#26
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Ain't it a b***h to make the fun choices

	10-06-2005 01:54									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex Ain't it a b***h to make the fun choices

Yeah.

I should go study accounting. thats nice and boring enough.

i guess it would take away an element of strategy.... in a way.

But it WOULD be realistic to have certain rivers allowing ships.

	10-06-2005 02:01									#28
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quote: Also, ships in SMAC are vulnerable to aerial attack. That won't be the case for CivIV ships for much of the game.

SMAC ships aren't more vulnerable, it's just that air power in SMAC comes early. I expect that Civ4 planes will be quite a threat to ships, too, once they come around.

	10-06-2005 03:56									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Solver That's because navies are expensive in SMAC. Good ships cost a lot of minerals, and building cheapo ships and upgrading them costs a lot of money. But the navies in SMAC can serve a very useful purpose, genreally unlike Civ3.

Upgrade cheapo ships? Just Decommission them.

quote: Now that I think of it, something i'd like to see is give the ability of Cities on Rivers to build ships on whatever sea the river leads to. Doesnt make sense to me that only coast cities can build ships.

Unless you're thinking of things like Barges and Riverboats... forget it.

	10-06-2005 04:01									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Also, ships in SMAC are vulnerable to aerial attack. That won't be the case for CivIV ships for much of the game. SMAC ships aren't more vulnerable, it's just that air power in SMAC comes early.

... which makes them more vulnerable.