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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes they do, but can you conceive of capitalism without workers? |
I can conceive of lots of potential changes in the structure of the labor market. In particular what we have seen is some shift from permanent employment to a "free lance society". In come cases said free lancer has her own capital, at least a computer, in other cases not. There is great variety in the bargaining position, wage level, skill level, etc of said free lancers. There are also a variety of contracting and subcontracting relationships, with different degrees of permanence.
And thats just what I can can conceive, looking at what already exists. Undoubtedly there will be things that will take place that are as inconceivable to me as a Ford Motors assembly line was to the peasants of 16th century England, or as a 1760s cotton mill was to a Roman slave. (in this sense I am with Hegel, more than Marx - "the owl of Minerva sings at dusk")
I am just enough of a Marxist to think that such changes will have an impact on the structure of society, on social and political relations, etc.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Feudalism was overthrown, lotm. |
Not by the class that it exploited, the peasantry. (other than in China)
Rather it generated, through its own development, NEW modes of production, with new class relations. The new modes became dominant. In most societies these new modes then eliminated feudalism (though in some places, like Latin America, they seemed fairly compatible with it for quite some time).
Thats the likely future of capitalism. It will generate new modes with new class relations which will become dominant. Will the class that dominates these new modes turn and kill off the remnants of capitalism, as the remnants of feudalism were killed off? Im not enough of a Marxist to be sure of that - indeed I think theres a great deal of complexity and contingency to how feudalism was killed off.
Indeed, I think realistically, that we've already had changes in the mode of production. We've discussed this before, but i think managerial capitalism is fundamentally different, and generates different social relations, than the entrepreneurial capitalism of Marxist times did, even if the relationships of workers to production was analagous (Again, im not a good Marxist for beleiving that) What we have today (in the US) is a mix of managerial capitalism, some apparent revival of the old entrepreneurial capitalism, and an evolving "free lance" sector that in many ways resembles the class relations of preindustrial and even precapitalist craftsmanship - one even hears the term "journeyman" and many freelancers resemble journeymen more than they do a 19th century labor force.
Of course no one uses the term master. Wouldnt sound right. And the relationships among subcontractors, contractors, etc would not be completely foreign to a medieval city, with its competing craft interests.
Last edited by lord of the mark on 09-06-2005 at 21:21
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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
I can conceive of lots of potential changes in the structure of the labor market. In particular what we have seen is some shift from permanent employment to a "free lance society". In come cases said free lancer has her own capital, at least a computer, in other cases not. There is great variety in the bargaining position, wage level, skill level, etc of said free lancers. There are also a variety of contracting and subcontracting relationships, with different degrees of permanence.
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I don't think we have a free lance society right now, but we seem to be moving in that direction. It is possible for little people to get negotiating power right now if they are smart, but whether or not that can happen for most people is very questionable. Inevitably the more people who do this the more competition there will be for free lancers, and their negotiating power will fall. The way that corporations have been able to maintain their rate of profit is avoiding competition. Avoidance of competition is what keeps capitalism functioning, and right now the movement to freelance work is part of that, but for how long?
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09-06-2005 15:31
But a bit sad at the same time 
I was a member for 8 years (which - coincidentally - was the same amount of time I was in the socialdemocrat youth organization. I wonder if that means something? 
) but I never really felt comfortable or at home. The thing that pushed me over the edge was when we had a discussion about participation in the swedish general elections next year and the arguments were exactly the same as the last three times we discussed that matter, and by exactly the same people. I just felt like we were three demented parrots repeating phrases over and over again... And when one of these comrades questioned my credibility and said that I didn´t work hard enough to be allowed to have an opinion on political matters I thought "**** it! I don´t need this ****" 
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