10-06-2005 00:56									#1
	Prostitution and Communism Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How does prostitution work under 1) idealized communism; and 2) real communism?

Under ideal communism, all women should make love for "free." Marriage is obsolete. There should be no need for prostitution. But, assuming there was still a demand, the women would have to work for the "community" and be paid the same as any other women's work. Now, would any women actually do this if they were paid the same?

Also, let's assume that some women actually worked "on the side" and kept the money. Would this be prosecuted as an economic crime?

Under real communism, I assume that prostitutes were/are tolerated as most small businesses were/are tolerated. But the average prostitute would be able to make a lot more money than the average doctor as doctor's wages were/are controlled. So why would a woman want to be a doctor and not a prostitute under real communism?

	10-06-2005 01:00									#2
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quote: Originally posted by Ned How does prostitution work under 1) idealized communism; and 2) real communism?

They get ****ed up the arse, just like everybody else.

	10-06-2005 01:02									#3
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FFS, what's this obsession with the sex industry?

And Ned's assuming it's all about economics. Would you rather be a labourer or a manager, assuming both are paid the same?

	10-06-2005 01:21									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Under ideal communism, all women should make love for "free." Marriage is obsolete. There should be no need for prostitution. But, assuming there was still a demand, the women would have to work for the "community" and be paid the same as any other women's work. Now, would any women actually do this if they were paid the same?

This is pretty much nonsense, just like the often used statement under communism all goods are common property, including women. Women are not goods.

Under ideal communism, due to the lack of a monetary equivalent and the rule "to each by his needs" there would be no reason for a woman to sell her body. For what, since ideally everyone can have every good. Yes, she would give sex only for free. However not to everyone who wants it, but to those she decides, i.e. is in love with.

quote: Also, let's assume that some women actually worked "on the side" and kept the money. Would this be prosecuted as an economic crime?

What money?

quote: Under real communism, I assume that prostitutes were/are tolerated as most small businesses were/are tolerated. But the average prostitute would be able to make a lot more money than the average doctor as doctor's wages were/are controlled.

Here you are right. I lived under real communism (even tho we called it socialism) and this is pretty much how it was.

quote: So why would a woman want to be a doctor and not a prostitute under real communism?

Well... there is a thing like self-esteem even under communism, believe it or not. Not every woman would cross that line easily. Some would, the majority would not.

Under capitalism prostitutes also earn more money than a lot of other professions. So why would under capitalism a woman be a house cleaner, a simple secretary or even unemployed if she can make much more spreading her legs?

	10-06-2005 01:23									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph What money?

Well things of value to her. Even without currency, people will have things that other people want and barter can occurr

	10-06-2005 01:26									#6
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quote: quote: quote: Under real communism, I assume that prostitutes were/are tolerated as most small businesses were/are tolerated. But the average prostitute would be able to make a lot more money than the average doctor as doctor's wages were/are controlled. Here you are right. I lived under real communism (even tho we called it socialism) and this is pretty much how it was.

You know, when you can admit this as an actual consequence of the implementation of your beliefs, it might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology.

	10-06-2005 01:26									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy And Ned's assuming it's all about economics. Would you rather be a labourer or a manager, assuming both are paid the same?

Depends on type of labour. Actually if everything paid the same I would seek to change jobs frequently. Why bother building skills or expertise in a certain area. A factory or a logger job could be interesting for a while and then I would move on.

More generally, I probably would prefer to be the labourer unless the manager was free to go home after their shift regardless of how F***ed up things were.

	10-06-2005 01:28									#8
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But you see my point?

	10-06-2005 01:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT You know, when you can admit this as an actual consequence of the implementation of your beliefs, it might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology.

This has nothing to do with my belief, I just state how it was.

I have seen them standing near one of the smaller hotels ("famous" for this kind of business), especially around the time of the Leipzig fair. I had nothing to do with prostitutes and even if I wanted them, I could not afford their services, since they were mainly available for capitalist currency only, i.e. for people like you.

	10-06-2005 02:04									#10
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All right, make that the rhetorical "you."

	10-06-2005 02:17									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Ned How does prostitution work under 1) idealized communism; and 2) real communism?

1/10

	10-06-2005 03:34									#12
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Under communism the 'madam' is refered to as 'madam commisar'.

That's it.

	10-06-2005 03:35									#13
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Or "Comrade Madame."

	10-06-2005 03:40									#14
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Any specials today comrade madame?

Hmm, doesn't roll off the toung...finger.

	10-06-2005 04:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Depends on type of labour. Actually if everything paid the same I would seek to change jobs frequently. Why bother building skills or expertise in a certain area. A factory or a logger job could be interesting for a while and then I would move on.

That's one of the points of communism, the ability to develop yourself more fully and experience the variety that life has to offer, instead of focusing on being a CPA.

	10-06-2005 04:38									#16
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CPA? Communist Party of Apolyton member?

	10-06-2005 04:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's one of the points of communism, the ability to develop yourself more fully and experience the variety that life has to offer, instead of focusing on being a CPA.

... while contributing very little to society.

	10-06-2005 04:45									#18
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT CPA? Communist Party of Apolyton member?

	10-06-2005 04:57									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Depends on type of labour. Actually if everything paid the same I would seek to change jobs frequently. Why bother building skills or expertise in a certain area. A factory or a logger job could be interesting for a while and then I would move on. More generally, I probably would prefer to be the labourer unless the manager was free to go home after their shift regardless of how F***ed up things were.

Sounds nice, this jobchanging at will, but since you doesn't have any influence in what you are going to do, because that is decided on a level above you, then you may end up putting dogfood in tincans without possibilty of change.

	10-06-2005 05:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT You know, when you can admit this as an actual consequence of the implementation of your beliefs, it might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology.

In capitalism, an average prostitute makes much, much more money than a house cleaner, which is a much more noble work. It might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology, John.

	10-06-2005 06:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat because that is decided on a level above you,

Bah!

	10-06-2005 06:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In capitalism, an average prostitute makes much, much more money than a house cleaner, which is a much more noble work. It might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology, John.

Yes, but doctors make more than both, which is nobler than both positions.

And can we have a cite on that prostitute/maid earning comparison you asserted? Or am I just to take it on faith?

	10-06-2005 06:07									#23
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I don't think there are statistics on what an average prostitute makes, except maybe in the legal trade in Nevada.

We could make a guess and compare it to the average wages of maids, but we'll still lack data on illegals.

	10-06-2005 06:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT And can we have a cite on that prostitute/maid earning comparison you asserted? Or am I just to take it on faith?

How many maids have the purchasing power to afford a hard drug habit?

	10-06-2005 06:08									#25
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Have the habit hard enough, purchasing power is irrelevant.

	10-06-2005 06:09									#26
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Yeah, you can always steal from your employer. My grandmother's maid, Vera did for years (why they didn't fire her sooner I'll never know )

	10-06-2005 06:18									#27
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Have the habit hard enough, purchasing power is irrelevant.

What I'm saying is that under your system (capitalism), many voluntary prostitutes (if not most) choose this job because of the easy money it means. This choice is often linked with a drug habit.

Despite the easy money, supply is still extremely low, which is why there are pimps who go fetch sex-slaves abroad, and which is why an absurdly large part of the supply is made of transvestites.

An insufficient supply of prostitutes is bound to happen in any non-libertine society that also has some extent of a market system. Thus, it's obvious you get inflated prices.

	10-06-2005 06:20									#28
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quote: You know, when you can admit this as an actual consequence of the implementation of your beliefs, it might be time to go back to the drawing board in re: to your ideology.

I can get paid more for hitting or throwing a ball than a doctor, teacher, etc...

	10-06-2005 06:27									#29
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For the sake of comparison, here's a list of prices from a Nevada brothel:

quote: Here at the Shady Lady ranch we cater to the working man . While others cater to the high rollers we feel it is about time that some one should provide great service for the average working man. Menu Prices Basic Service Menu Prices 20 minutes 100.00 More Then Basic Service Prices One hour $300.00 Two hours $500.00

Link

In comparison, my general doctor makes about 25€ per 20 minutes, which isn't too shabby. Specialist doctors (7-9 years of uni) make about 40€ per 20 minutes.
Even though doctors are better paid in the US than in France, I don't think most of your doctors will get 100$ per 20 minutes.

And I'm not even speaking about noble yet underpaid jobs, like doing the dishes (6$ an hour, Space05us' salary)

	10-06-2005 06:28									#30
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Yes, but doctors make more than both, which is nobler than both positions. And can we have a cite on that prostitute/maid earning comparison you asserted? Or am I just to take it on faith?

What a load of elitist bouirgeoise crap! I'm reporting you to the public safety commity. It's obvious you need re-education!