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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
If your family wanted to try and get by with only your wages I suppose that she wouldn't be forced to work, but probably would want to, because it would be easier to make ends meet and have some more money for vacation etc.. |
Quite a reversal from your previous statements.
All true but thats an economic CHOICE. people may feel some economic pressures that influence them but in the end its up to them. With us My wife works part time-- My sister . . . its reversed and hubby works part time. Other couples choose dual income and use daycare or have a stay at home parent. They always face the economic factors you cite and different people make different decisions.
I like freedom and choice
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
It comes down to the difference in the way that the two of us see "choice" and "force." I assert that people who have to do things in order to survive have no choice to do otherwise. That's why I was saying that both parents would have to work, because they might not be able to survive on one income. |
We always come down to that distinction. I just don't see much "force" in a capitalist society like Canada. Yes a family unit must earn sufficient income but its totally up to them in hoe they do that ( within certain legal boundaries)
Also you continue to use the term "survive" like working is a life or death choice. Its not. No one in Canada should EVER starve to death as there are ample social programs to keep people fed. If people are truly hungry it is less a function of capitalism and more a function of people not availing themselves of available resources OR (the most tragic case) parents that fritter away their income/ resources without caring for their children properly.
I don't see the element of "force " being any different now than it was in caveman days. The family unit must perform certain tasks in order to garner needed resources. ( Current capitalism with social safety nets is actually much more forgiving)
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Canada and the U.S. are two very different societies, boss. Working is a life or death choice here. |
well BOSS ( are you still a little on edge after your confrontation) . . . people shouldn't assume that capitalism MUST be on the US model. There are softer versions with better social security out there.
I point out the Canadian experience since capitalism doesn't have to be as harsh as it sounds in the US
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Not for sexist, misogynist men, no. Of course, with religion "abolished" women won't be as ashamed of wanting sex as they are in our society. |
Think of the Chinese- what will a generation of men in China do without potential life partners ??
I do agree that more liberated women would be nice
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
My question is why does it have to be "acceptable" and to whom? Why shouldn't Mrs Flubber NOT work all if that is here wish and the family unit is willing to get by with less resources? |
Yes! No one should have to work if they don't
t want to work. That is one of the goals of communism the right to be lazy. Of course, no one is saying that house work isn't hard work.
You have to remember that these arguments are from a time when #1, wives were the property of their husbands, #2, they had to clean and raise children and could not work or get educated, #3 they lived in a society that had been wrecked by years of invasion and civil war, and it was everyone's duty to help build and rebuild Russia.
If I might make a suggestion, I think rather than simply having one housewife/househusband doing all the work in one house, that there could be teams of wives/husbands working together to clean multiple houses. Staying at home by yourself is a rather isolating and stunting experience, which is one of the reasons that depression is so prevalent among housewives and stay at home moms. Humans need social contact with their peers, and no matter how much you love your kids, they are not a substitute for social interaction.
So stay at home folks could do the chores and child rearing together.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes! No one should have to work if they don't
t want to work. That is one of the goals of communism the right to be lazy.
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Where is the sarcasm smiley??
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Of course, no one is saying that house work isn't hard work.
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It is absolutely hard work
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
If I might make a suggestion, I think rather than simply having one housewife/househusband doing all the work in one house, that there could be teams of wives/husbands working together to clean multiple houses. Staying at home by yourself is a rather isolating and stunting experience, which is one of the reasons that depression is so prevalent among housewives and stay at home moms. Humans need social contact with their peers, and no matter how much you love your kids, they are not a substitute for social interaction.
So stay at home folks could do the chores and child rearing together. |
My wife has no "team" or anything so formal but she is RARELY at home with our little guy (2 year old). She has a network of friends and I doubt that it is often that she spends even a full day in the house. I can do a fair bit of the chores so her main responsibility is to keep our son entertained during the day
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Masturbate? |
A short term solution only since I believe that most people want companionship, touching and physical interaction apart from the simple orgasm.
A growing acceptance of homosexualty might be a better result for most of the guys that have inclinations in that direction. Based on demographics, any Chinese male that believes himself to be bi should just accept the facts and seek homosexual relations
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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Interesting-- I scanned it and it seems that the writer is in favor of a reduced work week as he fears that mechanization will result in a large surplus of labour with nothing to do.
At this time people would work insanely long hours so he probably thinks of a 10 hour day as being "lazy"
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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Second response--
So would it be correct to say that communists advocate laziness or are lazy???
I ask because kidicious went beserk the last time he felt I had implied that communists were lazy ( I implied no such thing but your article interests me. Is the thinking in this article accepted by many current communists
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
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Most commies themselves have a very strong work ideal, though they believe that no one should be forced to work. The idea is to eleiminate unecessary work and spread the rest out among more people, so we can start cutting down on the work week.
Work, however, isn't sen as an inherently bad thing, since it is part of what defines as us as humans, in that most animals do not work. We, however, evolved through work and in order to increase our ability to work (I realize I said that teleologically, but the effect is the same even if there was no intent). A part of our social being and sense of self comes from working, and the part of ourselves that we put into the objects of our work.
So I can't give you a straight answer because we have a dialectical view of work.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
So I can't give you a straight answer because we have a dialectical view of work. |
But have not communists attempted to resolve this contradiction or are your views destined to be inherently inconsistent?
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14-06-2005 21:26
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