10-06-2005 20:51									#31
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This isn't the high road. American consumers are getting shafted!

America is shafting itself by being so frigging sensitive about the issue.

I agree with UR, it's a brilliant move.

	10-06-2005 20:53									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Ford and GM still sell about half the cars in the US, and they employ hundreds of thousands of Americans, directly and indirectly. If they'd go under there would be a *serious* amount of noise and a lot of blame-shifting in Toyota's direction. By raising prices, they're throwing the ball to Detroit to prove themselves. They're essentially stating "We are not predators on a mission to crash America's industrial symbols: we just try to make good cars.", which probably is better PR than any kind of aggressive tactic would be.

This is how I interpret that.

"The worst thing that could happen to us is that GM and Ford go bankrupt, that their operations are rationalized, and that all the bad deals that have been shoved down their throats over the years will be killed."

	10-06-2005 20:53									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This is how I interpret that. "The worst thing that could happen to us is that GM and Ford go bankrupt, that their operations and would be rationalized, and that all the bad deals that have been shoved down their throats will be killed."

Maybe you shouldn't be "interpreting" my post.

	10-06-2005 20:55									#34
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I didn't think he was interpreting your post, but rather interpreting Toyota's true intent.

	10-06-2005 20:55									#35
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I'm just paraphrasing what Toyota "really" means.

	10-06-2005 21:00									#36
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Detroit has two responses: 1. Use the reprieve to fix (if possible) operations. 2. Raise their prices accordingly.

GM has dropped its prices, at least temporarily, with it's nationwide, GM employee discount sale, giving consumers an employee discount.

	10-06-2005 21:06									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I'm just paraphrasing what Toyota "really" means.

In that case: See, it's a brilliant move!

	10-06-2005 21:08									#39
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The people in the collosseum want to see death. The emporer looks around, sticks out his thumb and...

	10-06-2005 21:09									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DanS

Don't feel bad, now Americans can buy Toyotas without feeling guilty about it.

	10-06-2005 21:10									#41
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I won't feel guilty about it. Toyota makes the best cars.

	10-06-2005 21:18									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Don't feel bad, now Americans can buy Toyotas without feeling guilty about it.

Feeling guilty about buying Japanese is so... 1992. We have evolved, my dear Belgian.

	10-06-2005 21:20									#43
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Brilliant move by Toyota, american costumers get shafted. Both things are true. yay capitalism.

	10-06-2005 21:22									#44
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I never fully understood why GM and Ford in particular continued to insist on churning out crap. Yes, they have very high costs of labor from likely bad union deals. But that's a reality. Is the better way to deal with that reality to start making the best quality cars in the world, or spew out endless reams of garbage?

	10-06-2005 21:22									#45
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the japanese are right, and are brilliant. why spit on an old man? wait till he dies slowly, you'll get the inheritance soon enough anyways (besdies, the japanese always take a long term view on everything business)

	10-06-2005 21:22									#46
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This is capitalism as only the Japanese can imagine it.

	10-06-2005 21:25									#47
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Seems to be pwning, though, don't it, and that's the only thing that matters, non?

	10-06-2005 21:27									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Az Seems to be pwning, though, don't it, and that's the only thing that matters, non?

Someday Americans might get it.

	10-06-2005 21:29									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki IIs the better way to deal with that reality to start making the best quality cars in the world, or spew out endless reams of garbage?

Don't get me wrong. Their cars are now very reliable.

What happens is that the car companies -- GM in particular -- need to differentiate each of their products among all of their other very numerous products. They do this by closely regulating luxury. If you spend on the lower end, you get garbage and find it necessary to move up and spend more. If you spend in the mid-range, you get only slightly better garbage, and look longingly at the luxury models. If you spend on the higher end, you get luxury.

The Japanese carmakers put out fewer products and don't have to differentiate among them quite so much. Because of this, you get more luxury across the product lines.

	10-06-2005 21:32									#50
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American cars are crap. there is no 'luxery' in american cars at less then $45,000. its all plastic garbage.

even the pistons are made out of plastic.

	10-06-2005 21:35									#51
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quote: there is no 'luxery' in american cars at less then $45,000.

Well, not quite $45,000, but GM and Ford could put a lot more luxury in their lower end vehicles just fine if they wanted to. But why do that, when it would harm sales of your $45,000 whales?

	10-06-2005 21:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This isn't the high road. American consumers are getting shafted!

OMG!!! consumers getting shafted by the free market!

	10-06-2005 21:37									#53
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yeah, true.

	10-06-2005 21:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Don't get me wrong. Their cars are now very reliable. What happens is that the car companies -- GM in particular -- need to differentiate each of their products among all of their other very numerous products. They do this by closely regulating luxury. If you spend on the lower end, you get garbage and find it necessary to move up and spend more. If you spend in the mid-range, you get only slightly better garbage, and look longingly at the luxury models. If you spend on the higher end, you get luxury. The Japanese carmakers put out fewer products and don't have to differentiate among them quite so much. Because of this, you get more luxury across the product lines.

Yes, and which strategy seems to be working ever so slightly better? And what's the size of the market for luxury compared to that of low- and mid-range?

	10-06-2005 21:41									#55
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The Japanese strategy works better. And the low and mid-range is where the sales are. It is time for this business model to kill the inferior business model!

GM has as many brands as Toyota has models. And each brand has as many models as Toyota.

	10-06-2005 21:42									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Colon By raising prices, they're throwing the ball to Detroit to prove themselves. They're essentially stating "We are not predators on a mission to crash America's industrial symbols: we just try to make good cars.", which probably is better PR than any kind of aggressive tactic would be.

That's what I meant by "taking the high road."

	10-06-2005 22:08									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This is capitalism as only the Japanese can imagine it.

I agree, American business wouldn't know what a long-term view is if you'd hit it in the face.

	10-06-2005 22:43									#58
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Free Trade
Protectionism
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	10-06-2005 22:51									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Colon I agree, American business wouldn't know what a long-term view is if you'd hit it in the face.

American consumers are being victimized by the Japanese long-term managed capitalism view!

	10-06-2005 23:01									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword haha reversed protectionism LMAO... japan takes pity on the US...

Toyota's bosses are old guys with long memories. In the early 1980's the Japanese automakers made big headway into the US market so Reagan (you remember the Reagan whom the right claimed was free market, right? ) put import controls in place which greatly hurt the Japanese automakers. Toyota's execs are afraid that such a thing could happen again so they're moving by themeselves to head off such action before it happens.