11-06-2005 06:23									#121
	Got spare money?

I wasn't talking to you people anyway.

	11-06-2005 06:41									#122
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://www.caranddriver.com/article...article_id=8914

To compare industry journalists greatly disagree with you. Car & Driver's top 10 has 4 American, 4 Japanese, & 2 German. It's even more one sided when you realize several Japanese & European makes are American owned.

http://www.autosite.com/content/sha...icle_id_int/314

Austosite.com gives a similiar mix in their top cars & trucks for 2005.

http://motortrend.com/features/news...ews041117_coty/

Motor Trend just names one car per year as the best car on the market for the year. This year it's the Chrysler 300M which beat out every make and model the rest of the world had to offer.

http://www.roadandtravel.com/awards...aroftheyear.htm

Road & Track has 10 catagories whcih it names the best car or truck for each catagory. 6 Americans, 1 Japanese 3 Euros. Two of the Euros were American owned.

Face it the press loves American cars and the journalist industry keeps close tabs on quality. They know American & Japanese cars have quality while Euro cars are mostly facy but fragil things.

	11-06-2005 06:42									#123
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: http://motortrend.com/features/news...ews041117_coty/ Motor Trend just names one car per year as the best car on the market for the year. This year it's the Chrysler 300M which beat out every make and model the rest of the world had to offer.

Chrysler is European nowadays.

	11-06-2005 06:45									#124
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Face it the press loves American cars and the journalist industry keeps close tabs on quality. They know American & Japanese cars have quality while Euro cars are mostly facy but fragil things.

How many times can you miss the point?

BTW, saw a Cadillac Escalade with not one, but TWO burnt out tail lights on my way to Waterloo today.

	11-06-2005 06:50									#125
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Asher How many times can you miss the point? BTW, saw a Cadillac Escalade with not one, but TWO burnt out tail lights on my way to Waterloo today.

When did I ever say a good think about the Escalade? I don't have to defend the Escalade any more then you have to defend the Daihatsu Charade or the crap Mitsubishi shovels.

The comparison with Euro cars were for a certain Swiss poster who kept claiming US cars were the worst ever.

	11-06-2005 06:50									#126
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

GM going bankrupt

These guys killed just about every mass transit system back in the 50's - it's about time they get their due.

	11-06-2005 06:52									#127
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

They won't go bankrupt. The government wouldn't let Chrysler go bankrupt in the early 1980's and GM is several times Chryslers size.

	11-06-2005 06:53									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Colon Chrysler is European nowadays.

Half American, Half German officially but thanks to some recent stock purchases the majority of shares are owned by Americans. Blame it on the poor German economy but Americans are the majority share holders.

	11-06-2005 06:55									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Half American, Half German officially but thanks to some recent stock purchases the majority of shares are owned by Americans. Blame it on the poor German economy but Americans are the majority share holders.

I'm blaming Chrysler's turnaround on the Europeans.

	11-06-2005 07:42									#130
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To bad the Germans can't turn around Mercedes-Benz. Besides Chrysler was profitable and in fine shape when the companies merged and it didn't start having problems until Germans started monkeying around. Finally a German who promised to do what the Americans told him came in and suddenly the company is profitable again. Massively so.

Mercedes continues to be a dog though.

	11-06-2005 07:51									#131
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword haha reversed protectionism LMAO... japan takes pity on the US...

What's interesting is to go back in time and watch US-produced action movies from 1988-1990. There is so much portrayal of big Japanese companies as villians, it's an excellent historical account of the feeling of the time.

I can't remember what year it was, but at one point, the Japanese owned 50% of the real estate in downtown Los Angeles.

	11-06-2005 07:55									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kontiki I never fully understood why GM and Ford in particular continued to insist on churning out crap. Yes, they have very high costs of labor from likely bad union deals. But that's a reality. Is the better way to deal with that reality to start making the best quality cars in the world, or spew out endless reams of garbage?

It is amazing. I mean they have had 25 years to get their act together and STILL haven't been able to do it. I mean is it really THAT hard? Someone competes with you and you respond to it. But year after year I see these companies coming out with mind boggling designs on very strange cars that people don't buy.

There has to be SOME mystery out there.

	11-06-2005 07:57									#133
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin To bad the Germans can't turn around Mercedes-Benz. Besides Chrysler was profitable and in fine shape when the companies merged and it didn't start having problems until Germans started monkeying around.

Not really, Chrysler rose out of the dolldrums in a similar manner to Ford and GM with their SUV's: they had a couple of succesfull models that hid the company's fundamental flaws in quality and manufacturing technology. Hence, when Daimler-Benz bought the company they didn't bother to replace the management, which turned out to be a big mistake once the effect of the previous wore off. It's only once the Germans realised giving their Americans counterparts a free hand wasn't such a great idea that Chrysler was getting fixed.

And regarding the quality deteriorating at Mercedes, I blame Anglo-saxon business practices pervading German work-ethic.

	11-06-2005 08:07									#134
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Quality was always questionable as several Mercedes owners can testify. Profits are what I'm refering to; Chrysler has them will Mercedes has been deep in the red for several years now. I can't believe how bumbling the Germans are sometimes, Plymouth sold 200k cars per year but the krauts closed it claiming it was to small but their pet project Smart costs hundreds of millions but sells a few tens of thousands per year and they say its great? The smart is garbage which will never earn a penny and rebadging it as an A-Class just devalues the Mercedes name.

Mercedes needs to follow Audi's lead and not follow BMW's failed excersize with Rover. Mercedes needs to increase it's volume by sharing platforms and components with Chrysler the way Lexus/Toyota, Audi/VW, Chevrolet/Caddilliac, and Ford/Lincoln/Jaguar do. That will help them cut costs while increasing their model line up thus putting them back into profitability. BMW was to stuffy to share with Rover so that merger failed. Why even merge if you aren't going to try to cut costs by combining purchasing?

Further more Mercedes needs new design talent because compared to Lexus, Jag, Infinity, Audi, and the new Caddilliacs their cars are either boring or ugly. Mercedes is an also ran and has been one for the last 10 years.

	11-06-2005 08:07									#135
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I will have to agree that the difference between Chrysler's product before and after the Germans bought it, is quite dramatic. The level of quality of these cars rose dramatically. The PT cruiser is a big hit, and Chrysler cars have alot of style to them.

The Chrysler 300 is also a big hit, and is pimping it in both the suburban and hip urban market.


But GM and Ford bet their last 5 years on trucks, and now that people want fuel efficient cars, they are paying for it. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda are reaping the benefits.

	11-06-2005 08:09									#136
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

.

Attachment: twentytwos.jpg
This has been downloaded 33 time(s).

	11-06-2005 08:10									#137
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Further more Mercedes needs new design talent because compared to Lexus, Jag, Infinity, Audi, and the new Caddilliacs their cars are either boring or ugly. Mercedes is an also ran and has been one for the last 10 years.

This is true, their styles are old, boxy, stuffy, and boring.

The interior still kicks azz though.

There is supposed to be a dramatic restyling this year for the Mercedes. I have only seen one so far, so am unsure how I feel about it.

	11-06-2005 08:13									#138
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Gm & Ford's management is the problem. They have the same basic ass covering, no risk taking, losers they had 10 even 15 years ago in charge. They didn't invest in cars because short term profits looked better if they just spent money on trucks and skipped investing in new cars. The results? gas prices rose and truck sales slide now they have a shortage of good cars. It was a no brainer which these guys were repeatedly warned about but ignored. They need to go.

The FIAT thing should have gotten Wagner hanged but he's still their still leading GM no where but down. He needs to fired and new outside management needs to be brought in like how Nissan did when it was having hard times. Without new management Nissan would have gone bankrupt in the late 1990's and there wouldn't be much of a success story recently from the Japanese auto industry.

	11-06-2005 08:15									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Nissan totally kicked azz with their Infiniti G35.

The new Z also rocks.

	11-06-2005 08:17									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The new Mitsubishi Eclipse looks tight.

	11-06-2005 08:20									#141
	Got spare money?

I was pretty excited about 2005 Mustang, but have been let down.

	11-06-2005 08:21									#142
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I like the slightly modified look of the G35 better then the 350Z. Both are heavy, underpowered, slightly over priced, but nice cars. Still $30k isn't to bad even if it is $5k to high.

	11-06-2005 08:27									#143
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I was pretty excited about 2005 Mustang, but have been let down.

Yeah, Ford let people down with that 1960's live rear axel./ They said they wanted to give it the feel of the original but I didn't think they were going to pull out 40 year old parts designs.

That crappy Thunderbird also shows that Ford's managers just don't get it and they should be euthinized for the good of all shareholders. They need to revamp the 1970's vintage Capri or 1990's vintage Probe idea of a modern high tech but reasonablely priced compact sports car. Something along the lines of an Acura RSX. Mitsubishi tried and failed with its latest (butt ugly) Eclipse as did Pontiac with its (utterly under equiped) G5 so there is a market opening but it must be a real sports coupe not a half ass measure like the late 90's Mercury Cougar. That Cougar was nothing more then a 2 door Mazda 626.

	11-06-2005 09:34									#144
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Kuci

	11-06-2005 09:35									#145
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It had to be done.

	11-06-2005 09:37									#146
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

A better demonstration of Kid being pwned has never been seen. But even then, he didn't budge

	11-06-2005 09:40									#147
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Don't worry, Asher. Someday, you too will be able to afford a new car and get to stop worrying about 4+ year QC standards.

Ah, that's why the average Usian is neck deep in waste.

	11-06-2005 10:09									#148
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Huh? I don't see any waste. Well, there is a dirty plate which I ate my shrimp scampi off of but that's it.

	11-06-2005 10:21									#149
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui A better demonstration of Kid being pwned has never been seen. But even then, he didn't budge

There are plenty other people in the world you think that Toyota just might want to increase their profit, just not at this website. Maybe it's because people here play too many games or something.

	11-06-2005 12:44									#150
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Profits are what I'm refering to; Chrysler has them will Mercedes has been deep in the red for several years now.

So was I. After Daimler-Benz merged with Chrysler the American management remained on its seats (heck, there was even talk of moving the HQ to Detroit for a while), but then Chrysler's bottom line began showing deep red ink, as the company's fundamental flaws were exposed. So they installed a German on top, and invested in upgrading the facilities and developing new models. The results of which are showing now.

And as to why Mercedes is sucking so much of the late, I don't know, but bad quality is something Anglo-saxon so I blame that.