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Caligastia
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Hey guys, say Hi to Brendan Michael!
 Attachment: baby1.jpg
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:21
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Congratulations Caligastia!
Btw he's not going to be born American is he? 
quote:
Andydog
Seriously, sometimes you can be the most pathetic bunch of whinging, whining, moaning, groaning, b*tching, buck-passing nancy boys on god's green earth.
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Welcome back Mr Andydog.
While that may be a fairly apt analogy I do feel that it may be just a tad on the harsh side.
My last take on the BO'D affair - Apparently he charged into the ruck late.
I can't imagine why Mr Woodward neglected to post that bit of footage. 
Whether or not the ball had already been cleared I don't know but thats hardly something inclined to make anybody still in said ruck believe that the ball has left. Out the window go the 'off-the-ball' allegations.
Additionally, something else I wasn't aware of - timing issues aside - the match official apparently only adjudicates on situations in which a red card would have been awarded.
While the eminently estimable Mr Woodward may be trying to play that angle up to cover up his teams relatively poor performance (afterall even Clive might've come away with a victory playing against 13 men ), it's hardly cut and dry from that footage that either of the AB's should have been so carded.
Warned probably, penalised possibly and maybe even a yellow card between them if the ref deemed it definitively intentional, but not red carded. Clive's smokescreen is looking thinner and thinner.
Tis also interesting to see Mr Havak citing reports in the NZ media that seem to support the British version of events. Tisn't so long ago that he, rather vocally, held them in, well, slightly less than high regard?
Or was that 2 threads ago now and hence inadmissable?
Of interest is the 'new' test side -
http://www.planetrugby.com/Tourname...ory_44563.shtml
My favourite quote :-
'If you make a mistake, you fix it quickly'
Quickly? Hmmm ...
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:21
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Yeah congrats Cali – due when?
quote:
Apparently he charged into the ruck late. |
To quote a man I know “piffle”. Not everyone hits a ruck at the same time – BOD was last man for the Lions certainly. How exactly does that excuse a double dump tackle made after the ball has been shipped? Weakest attempted defence I’ve seen so far.
I rather thought Andydog was simply baiting to be honest (it was so stinky a rat would turn it’s nose up at it) – had I taken him at all seriously I would have suggested he rethought where he was living. In a ****hole of a city wrapped around the Thames isn’t it?
quote:
the match official apparently only adjudicates on situations in which a red card would have been awarded. |
Only officiate on situations in which NH players would have been red carded you mean?
Regardless a dump, or spear, tackle is a possible red card offence. Next!
Incidentally this is a new regulation on me – in the English League any foul play not seen by the referee can be cited by the officials. In fact the award of a card does not prevent citing later on either!
quote:
Warned probably, penalised possibly and maybe even a yellow card between them if the ref deemed it definitively intentional, but not red carded |
Utter piffle. See above. No regulations exist to cover double dump tackles with double lifted legs that I am aware of – but there sure as heck should be.
quote:
Tisn't so long ago that he, rather vocally, held them in, well, slightly less than high regard? |
And I still think the majority of sports journalism I have seen from your boys is jingoistic xenophobic nonsense worthy of the Aussie press. Just like UK tabloids yes. And I expected better of NZ to be honest. My point was actually that if even some of the Kiwi press is not towing the ‘innocent ‘ party line then surely there is some substance to the matter?
It’s not going to go away and the tour will be remembered for it sadly. Much like the 2001 tour is remembered for McCrae’s assault on O’Gara and Harrisons psychotic behaviour in the Brumbie game (and incidentally the Aussies tried to spin both of those as innocent too – ludicrously so for McCrae who should have done time for it). And McCrae is now kicking coach at Glaws – one more reason to hate the tractor boys. Hmm I got sidetracked there…
Eddie O’Sullivan (Ireland coach for the uninitiated) is all over the radio this morning expressing his disappointment at the AB response over the BOD matter. Finbar will see the deft hand of the Campbell ****** here as I surely do. Lets just say neither Umaga nor Mealamu will be retiring to Ireland I think (the former is unlikely ever to want to of course – and I can’t see any UK club being interested in the hooker anyway).
However you spin this NZ rugby comes out of it with a damaged reputation. Clive comes out of it even more reviled in the SH. BOD comes out of it with six months on the sidelines. Let us not lose sight of which of those is the worst shall we?
Doesn’t it bother you Kiwi boys at all that this is turning four whole nations into Bok and Aussie supporters when previously I suspect the majority (not always myself of course) have shouted for Black? Do you not realise what you are doing to us forcing us to follow the Biffers and the Waltzers?
I’ve actually gained a great deal more respect for the way the Aussies so often nullify the ABs after watching how the Lions failed to with a similar gameplan to the RWC semi. Do you realise how sick that makes me feel!??
Can we get back to talking about the team? I’d welcome your thoughts on it.
Easterby has not done enough for me to be there – Byrne is a lucky man. Dawson and Horgan? Wtf?
British & Irish Lions: 15 Josh Lewsey (London Wasps, England), 14 Jason Robinson (Sale Sharks, England), 13 Gareth Thomas (Toulouse, Wales - captain), 12 Gavin Henson (Ospreys, Wales), 11 Shane Williams (Ospreys, Wales), 10 Jonny Wilkinson (Newcastle Falcons, England), 9 Dwayne Peel (Llanelli, Wales), 8 Ryan Jones (Ospreys, Wales), 7 Lewis Moody (Leicester Tigers, England), 6 Simon Easterby (Llanelli, Ireland), 5 Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster, Ireland), 4 Paul O’Connell (Munster, Ireland), 3 Julian White (Leicester Tigers, England), 2 Steve Thompson (Northampton Saints, England), 1 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff, Wales).
Replacements: 16 Shane Byrne (Leinster, Ireland), 17 Graham Rowntree (Leicester Tigers, England), 18 Martin Corry (Leicester Tigers, England), 19 Martyn Williams (Blues, Wales), 20 Matt Dawson (London Wasps, England), 21 Stephen Jones (Clermont Auvergne, Wales), 22 Shane Horgan (Leinster, Ireland).
quote:
'If you make a mistake, you fix it quickly' |
What exactly is wrong with this quote?
I remember watching a side lose an RWC semi final and follow it up with a bottom place finish in their next tournament. Three months later after ditching a bizarre gameplan and an outside half (who whilst exciting to watch was a liability) I watched that same team play one of the most complete performances I have ever seen.
So again – what is wrong with that quote? Change what needs changing surely?
I suppose there is always the chance that the ABs will turn up in November with confidence and egos totally out of control. Not that this would help England with Turnip in the chair still but Wales might roll them. And I bet you Kiwi lads have that sneaky little demon on your shoulder saying “peaking too early”. RWC 2007 – an AB victory at last?
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:21
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New Zealand: Mils Muliaina; Rico Gear, Tana Umaga (captain), Aaron Mauger, Sitiveni Sivivatu; Daniel Carter, Byron Kelleher; Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Greg Somerville, Chris Jack, Ali Williams, Jerry Collins, Richie McCaw, Rodney So'oialo.
Replacements: Derren Witcombe, Campbell Johnstone, Jono Gibbes, Sione Lauaki, Justin Marshall, Ma'a Nonu, Leon MacDonald.
With Hayman ruled out and Lardy coming into our line up we really should be able to apply some pressure on that front row!
Oh and just to further undermine the AB spin:
IRB chairman Syd Millar said he believed the sport had become dangerous at cleanouts, and Brian O'Driscoll's injury highlighted a serious problem.
"It's not part of rugby to be taken out off the ball. It's dangerous, the guy's not expecting it. It shouldn't be part of rugby,"
"Referees make the point that it's hard to watch that when they're watching the ball and the tackle.
"We've to ensure that referees apply the law. Maybe touch judges could help."
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Andydog
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London
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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 nice one Ravagon! 
I must apologise for my rant on the temp thread. It wasn't even meant to be bait, it was just me in a crap mood on the tail end of a shoddy day getting fed up with all the tabloid BOD hosh posh. So I thought I'd drop by here to see what you guys thought about it all, and sure enough saw that the greasy bitter drinker spouting his usual drivel.
Havak it may not have sounded that way but I don't hate the English in the slightest. Just their attitude at times, as I'm sure certain attitudes of the Kiwi's get up your goat at times.  And I actually enjoy living in London a lot.
This made me laugh - it's doing the rounds on the email at the moment.
quote:
All Black Captain Tana Umaga has redeemed himself from a week of controversy by phoning crocked Lions rugby captain Brian O'Driscoll to apologise for the 'spear tackle' that ended his tour, and revealed to O'Driscoll he would have called sooner but his mobile was 'out of credit'.
Umaga said he was 'real sorry' about O'Driscoll's injury, but reminded his opposite that rugby was a contact sport and that accidents happen, and if he didn't like it he shouldn't go trying to get the ball when the All Blacks want it. O'Driscoll expressed his forgiveness to Umaga, explaining he thought the game was supposed to be played under touch rugby rules. He said it was 'swell' of Umaga to call.
The apology has started a flood of similar calls between former rugby foes.
Rua Tipoki of NZ Maori has revealed his relief at receiving a call from Lion Gordon D'Arcy to apologise for the late spear tackle he executed on the centre during the Lions match against NZ Maori earlier in the month. A tearful Tipoki said "Bro, it's about bloody time, eh. I've been sat by the phone for weeks waiting for that neho to call. He could have bloody killed me, the b*stard!".
Maori coach Matt Te Pou said he had intended to take a tape of the D'Arcy incident to the press after the Lions v Maori match to protest at the incident, but chose not to "cos only a real f*ckin whinging loser would do that sort of sh*t eh".
Wayne Shelford has confirmed a call from French Rugby Federation officials, apologising for the impromptu removal of his left testicle by the French forward pack in 1989.
Johan Le Roux and Sean Fitzpatrick were seen today holding hands in an Auckland park, the pair apparently having made up for their differences from 1994 when Le Roux bit Fitzpatrick's left ear. Le Roux endorsed the new trend of apologising for every single physical act in a game of rugby. The former Springbok prop said that bottling up all that guilt over the years had made him feel all bad inside and it was good to get it out and reveal his true feelings for Fitzpatrick, who he described as his hero.
Danny Grewcock admitted he "had a bit of ringing round to do".
Richard Loe's phone has been engaged all day. |
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Doesn’t it bother you Kiwi boys at all that this is turning four whole nations into Bok and Aussie supporters when previously I suspect the majority (not always myself of course) have shouted for Black? Do you not realise what you are doing to us forcing us to follow the Biffers and the Waltzers? |
I don't think it will bother any Kiwi in the slightest. Parochial pr*cks.
quote:
I’ve actually gained a great deal more respect for the way the Aussies so often nullify the ABs after watching how the Lions failed to with a similar gameplan to the RWC semi. Do you realise how sick that makes me feel!?? |
I think it amounts to taking the initiative from them and smothering them. Plodders need not apply for the job.
quote:
Can we get back to talking about the team? I’d welcome your thoughts on it.
Easterby has not done enough for me to be there – Byrne is a lucky man. Dawson and Horgan? Wtf? |
Where to start? I suppose Clive had to select the Taffy glove puppet on the wing. He'd've been even more pilloried if he hadn't. Presumably he will simply have to score more tries than he lets through because the AB wingers are just as quick as he is and three times as strong. I wish him well. He's very entertaining to watch. Oh, and Rico Gear can do some astonishing things. I saw a lot of him in S12. Timed as the quickest of all the AB backs.
Robinson? It's getting beyond a joke. Clive is picking him and hoping. In concert with the glove puppet, this isn't an awe-inspiring wing combination. (Having said that, they'll probably run in half a dozen)
The centre combination looks - potentially - to have more potency. Time for Mr Henson to show what he can do. He has a useful #10 inside him.
Reports from last week suggested that Peel was harassed and bustled to his detriment. The ABs have brought in one of the great harassers in Kellaher. He makes George Gregan look shy and retiring. What this does to the service to the Lions backs will be interesting to see. Not that I'll see it! 
Dodgy back row. Moody will give a good tough account. Big test for Jones, and I don't know Easterby. Was Corry slow last week? I remember Waugh and Smith made him look a bit slow. Anyway, the AB back row is extremely potent. This lot will have to work their bums off.
And the Beer Gut throwing into the lineout? M-hm. Perhaps the rationale is that he couldn't do any worse than the chap last week did. But I've seen him throw some shockers. We shall see.
EDIT. I just came across this:
Woodward anger at lineout numbers
The Lions struggled to win the ball on their own throw on Saturday.
Lions coach Sir Clive Woodward has accused New Zealand of having too many players in the lineout during the first Test last Saturday.
From everything I've read of the match, the Lions hooker couldn't throw the ball within cooee (an Australian expression, sorry, I don't know of an Italian equivalent) of a Lions jumper. Apparently that wasn't the case. The throwing was fine, it was the ABs cheating with too many jumpers that caused the problem.
Is anyone taking this man seriously anymore?
Last edited by finbar on 30-06-2005 at 17:04
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ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Huh? Read this aloud to yourself – it’s ludicrous isn’t it?! As you truly saying that every player involved in a ruck knows instantly when a ball has shipped? Wherever they are in relation to the pill?? Whether the side in possession or not??
Just a thought but even if Brian arrived late (and I think this is wrong) why was a tackle then made after the ball had gone?
I just don’t get this argument at all to be honest.
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T'isn't ludicrous at all. What did you do when you lost sight of the ball in a ruck and still had opposition players charging in? Stop for a tea break?
I guess I could understand this if you were an ex-Wasps player ...
Rucks generally end when the outermost players, having seen the ball disengage, stop rucking and break away. This pretty much lets the players originally in the middle know that it's over, and so on.
Having new players charge in, even when you can't see the ball, isn't exactly a good guideline for determining that the ball isn't there any more is it?
Hence one doesn't make this assumption and one continues rucking.
This seems so implicitly obvious to me that I'm having difficulty grasping where your point of contention comes from.
Players don't (yet) have live feeds going directly to their optical cortex that lets them know where everybody and everything is on the field at any particular instant - hence they go with common sense.
quote:
No. It’s called a spear tackle in the laws I believe (over to Finbar) and concerns driving a player head, shoulder or back first into the ground. Commentators have been using the word ‘dump’ and it has infiltrated my vocabularly.
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This is, again, my point. A spear tackle it was not. Tana let him go once (IMO of course) he saw that the ball wasn't there anymore. Mealamu ended up almost underneath him and certainly wasn't driving him into the ground.
Ergo if it doesn't meet the criteria for a spear tackle then it isn't one. It doesn't therefore it isn't.
quote:
I’d settle for an apology – that he still has not made. After the series now if necessary so he is not ‘distracted’ by having to do so during it.
Incidentally you cannot really keep ignoring simple facts. The tackle was off the ball. It badly hurt the player tackled. Whether punished or not both players are certainly 'guilty' of badly hurting a fellow player. The question mark is over intent isn't it - and whether that can continue to be a defence under the laws in future?
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The apology I heartily agree on. Unfortunately with the press coverage since I'd be very surprised if one did come before the end of the series. Digging ones heels in and all that...
As for off the ball I think I've already covered that, er, somewhere?
quote:
Well I can’t help what you think of me – and I certainly won’t lose any sleep over it. At all.
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Oh dear. I see now how you could have taken it that way. This was NOT intentional believe it or not. Heh.
Actually I was referring to another ex-Tigers player who is, erm, a 'little more involved' with the current tour shall we say?
Sorry about that. 
quote:
I do seem to have been dragged into defending the Lions camp’s behaviour when actually my main concern is Tana and the AB’s shocking lack of civility and decorum over the issue. Had Tana said sorry publically the next day I doubt I would be tolerating Clive’s continued focus. As it stands I think the ABs deserve it to a certain extent. I’m certainly not calling for retrospective lynchings or cardings though (am I – or did I get really carried away with previous posts???).
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I don't have an exact timeline but I have a feeling that much of the furor had already kicked in by then and that Tana was probably already sequestered as a result of Clive's antics. Cause and effect.
Otherwise I would almost certainly agree.
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Andydog
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London
Jan 2001
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
In all honesty – and partisan banter aside – I believe both camps have got this one totally wrong. It could have been killed last Sunday – and all Campbells subsequent efforts negated – very easily. Yes it would have required the word “sorry” but is that such a big deal? The series is the ABs anyway, I suspect we all know that, and this descent into mutual hatred (and I don’t think it’s too strong a word?) between the camps is very disappointing. |
The thing is, Havak, Tana insisted he did nothing wrong. This means that as far as he is concerned, he has nothing to apologise for. (Unless the Brits think he should say "Brian, I'm so sorry this was rugby and not tiddlywinks..."). Of course Tana would commiserate - he's a decent bloke. Most guys would feel bad for another injured player.
Anyway, round and round in circles we go..
Another thing, this sort of nonsensical "he should apologise!!" type calls just don’t happen in the SH. If our teams play each other and one is on the receiving end, it’s kept on the field, and that’s the way it is. We don’t b!tch about it thru the media. To us that only makes the b!tching team look like sore losers. So why should we suddenly be drawn into a cat-fight now?
If the NH little girls can’t handle the way rugby is played in the SH then they should stick to their NH club rug-bish.
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
The odds on the Lions' M.O. being what it has been if the pr*ck Alistair Campbell weren't the Lions' media advisor? |
He he. I honestly don't see the point in announcing to the world that you're employing the services of a professional spin doctor to handle your press activities. You're effectively telling the world that any information you let them have is unlikely to be truthful and that sort of defeats the purpose. By all means employ the man to prepare your press releases in the background, but to employ him as a spokesman is a joke.
And now for some more giggles: 
Attachment: clive2.jpg
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29-06-2005 18:59
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