05-07-2005 12:09									#91
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Let's summarise this thread, from the time Jimmy leaves the US to the present moment: Jimmy immigrates to Canada. This leaves him feeling slightly traitorous, although he can at least pacify himself with the knowledge that Canada is barely a sovereign nation, and envies the US greatly. Jimmy spends the next 5 years finding out that Canadians do not envy the US, and have a slightly different version of the war of 1812. GW wins the 2001 elections. Canadians are, understandably, tickled pink that Americans would do something that stupid to themselves. Jimmy grows annoyed at what he views as Canada's smug sense of superiority, further fueling his inferiority complex. GW continues his muddleheaded presidency. Canada pretends not to be home when he calls concerning possible Canadian involvement in Iraq. He's confused by Chrétien's bilingual doublespeak on the answering machine, and leaves a poorly worded message about liking maple syrup. Jimmy is hotly embarrassed when Lloyd Roberts plays the tape on the air the next day. He starts his Tim Horton voodoo doll. Tim, having been dead for 30 years, is none the worse for wear. Jimmy's is infuriated at his own impotence. GW is reelected. Canadians feel that the joke is wearing a bit thin, and start to feel sorry for their benighted southern neighbours. Jimmy is driven into a frenzy. In his heart he agrees with them, but pride ties a knot in his stomach. Jimmy wakes up in the morning and decides to peruse CounterPunch as a reliable source of news and views (?) Jimmy reads an article by an expat (?) American excoriating the US and sucking Canada's dick. Jimmy decides that this is indicative of the average Canadian's ignorance of historical fact and tendency toward jingoism. Jimmy posts thread lambasting Canadians for being ignorant, chauvinist nationalists. It is quickly pointed out to him that the author of the article is American, and that the average Canadian is, in fact, well aware of his country's faults. Jimmy spins off into madness brought on by once more having been pwn3d by a mere Canuck.

You can write my authorized biography.

But nice attempt at character assasination by the way. I'm glad to see you chose to use your time writing that little story instead of proving any of your points.

But thanks again for offering the Heritage Moment anecdote. You've really contrubuted to this thread.

	05-07-2005 12:11									#92
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Can you prove anything you've said about Canadian attitudes, Jimmy?

	05-07-2005 12:12									#93
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse As NYE said, you're fading quickly into relativism here. "I've been wrecked on any objective measure of this argument, so I'll just say that I have a right to my opinion"

KH, if you honestly disagree with me, what else is there to say?

And how might one objectively measure something as abstract and fickle as 30 million people's opinion in any kind of meaningful way?

	05-07-2005 12:12									#94
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Indeed. It started off ignorant and uninformed.

I just made it huomourously so.

	05-07-2005 12:12									#95
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Can you prove anything you've said about Canadian attitudes, Jimmy?

In a way that satisfies you? Apparantly not.

Can you do the same for me?

	05-07-2005 12:14									#96
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An American apostate annoys an American chauvinist and he takes it out on Canadians.

	05-07-2005 12:18									#97
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn KH, if you honestly disagree with me, what else is there to say? And how might one objectively measure something as abstract and fickle as 30 million people's opinion in any kind of meaningful way?

Once more, "I'm entitled to my opinion LALALALALA"

If you had a point to make then make it. Show me why you feel that Canadians are full of themselves.

It's a little bit sad how obvious your feelings of inadequacy are in this thread.

There's a lot of great things about the US, jimmy. You don't have to be ashamed of originating there.

	05-07-2005 12:18									#98
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn In a way that satisfies you? Apparantly not. Can you do the same for me?

Well, you've offered nothing that would satisfy anyone, outside of your venom.

Do you have anything other than your rant and the words of a guy from Chicago?

And asking me to prove something as NOT being the case is a real smooth move... for a turnip.

	05-07-2005 12:18									#99
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse An American apostate annoys an American chauvinist and he takes it out on Canadians.

Not Canadians, everyone everywhere - I believe there's too much complacency.

I happened to use Canadians in this thread because the thread was -duh- about Canada.

	05-07-2005 12:21									#100
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You mean the thread was started on mistaken assumptions about the nationality of an author?

That was your mistake, wasn't it, Jimmy?

	05-07-2005 12:24									#101
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He'll never admit that he was mistaken, or that he reacted overly strongly, or that perhaps there's a reason buried deep in his psyche why he did so.

That takes intellectual honesty.

	05-07-2005 12:39									#102
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You mean the thread was started on mistaken assumptions about the nationality of an author? That was your mistake, wasn't it, Jimmy?

The thread was started based on the content of the article, not the birth place of the author.

When I went on about complacency, it was only indirectly related to the OP. I suppose the only mistake I made was in not explicitly making it know that I wasn't just picking on Canadians.

quote: Once more, "I'm entitled to my opinion LALALALALA"

Of course its my opinion, what else would it be?

quote: And asking me to prove something as NOT being the case is a real smooth move... for a turnip.

Sorry, I thought that was standard procedure in begging to differ with someone.

	05-07-2005 12:43									#103
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And just to recap, I've been arguing that people (Canadians in this instance) are complacent regarding the darker periods of their history.

KH and NYE: No they're not.

Thats a MENSA response if I ever heard one.

	05-07-2005 12:46									#104
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Jimmy is right. NYE and KH are the smuggest people on Apolyton.

	05-07-2005 12:49									#105
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Here's some advice guys:

Go back to OP, pick it apart, then tell me why I'm wrong in making the assumption that attitudes such as these are not conducive to fostering complacency towards wrongful actions of the past. Prove to me that all is being to done curb this kind of complacency. Otherwise, you're just trolling.

	05-07-2005 12:50									#106
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn The thread was started based on the content of the article, not the birth place of the author. When I went on about complacency, it was only indirectly related to the OP. I suppose the only mistake I made was in not explicitly making it know that I wasn't just picking on Canadians.

But you used someone you assumed to be Canadian as a whipping boy for what you feel is wrong with our country.

Your problem is both that the boy was not a Canuck AND that we already whip ourselves plenty over just the same issues you touch on.

Treatment of Amerindians? OUCH!

The treatement Canadian citizens of Japanese descent during WW2? OUCH!

The treatment of Chinese imigrants, which by the way you have all wrong and your dates are totally FUBAR? OUCH!

Other things that you apparently don't have a clue about, like Jewish refugees from Germany before WW2? OUCH!

etc., etc.

Believe me, Jimmy, Canada has guilt developed to a fine point. We do not need some holier than thou, and wrong, Yank telling us how to conduct the orchestra of shame.

	05-07-2005 12:52									#107
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Here's some advice guys: Go back to OP, pick it apart, then tell me why I'm wrong in making the assumption that attitudes such as these are not conducive to fostering complacency towards wrongful actions of the past. Prove to me that all is being to done curb this kind of complacency. Otherwise, you're just trolling.

DUH! They're NOT CANADIAN ATTITUDES?

Are you really dumber than a sack of hammers?

	05-07-2005 12:54									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Jimmy is right. NYE and KH are the smuggest people on Apolyton.

0.1

	05-07-2005 12:56									#109
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Ya smug git.

	05-07-2005 12:58									#111
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It's hard not to be smug when you're Canadian...

	05-07-2005 13:02									#112
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither But you used someone you assumed to be Canadian as a whipping boy for what you feel is wrong with our country. Your problem is both that the boy was not a Canuck AND that we already whip ourselves plenty over just the same issues you touch on.

I wouldn't care if it was written by a robot. It makes no difference. My beef with him is that I've read his work before and frankly didn't expect some nationalist ode **** fest. I expected better. Its the sort of crap I would have expected from the Globe and Mail, not Counterpunch.

quote: Treatment of Amerindians? OUCH! The treatement Canadian citizens of Japanese descent during WW2? OUCH! The treatment of Chinese imigrants, which by the way you have all wrong and your dates are totally FUBAR? OUCH! Other things that you apparently don't have a clue about, like Jewish refugees from Germany before WW2? OUCH! etc., etc.

Because I didn't mention it, I obviously didn't have a clue.

quote: Believe me, Jimmy, Canada has guilt developed to a fine point. We do not need some holier than thou, and wrong, Yank telling us how to conduct the orchestra of shame.

If guilty is how you're feeling then clearly guilt isn't a strong enough emotion for what I want. I want the discussion to move beyond "ouch!, that sucked... now lets celebrate that we're at least not as bad as Nazi Germany". Thats complacent crap.

	05-07-2005 13:08									#113
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quote: Its the sort of crap I would have expected from the Globe and Mail, not Counterpunch.

Wait,

	05-07-2005 13:11									#114
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quote: Let's not forget that while Canadians celebrate "Canada Day" on July 1st, Chinese-Canadians are observing Humiliation Day. On July 1st 1923, A head-tax of $500 was put on Chinese immigrants, and was only lifted in the late 1940s. Five hundred dollars back then was the equivalent of two houses - or half a million dollars today.

First off, the humiliation started in 1885 when the government imposed a $50 head tax. It was raised in 1903 to $500, not 1923.

What happened in 1923 was an Exclusion Act, which barred entry altogether, no matter the price paid.

How are we doing so far on being clueless about humiliation? Are you following?

quote: What a great tribute to the people who built the "National Dream". For every kilometre of the Canadian Pacific Railway built between Calgary and Vancouver a Chinese labourer died.

Uhmmm, these weren't the same people, you know? The originial CPR workers were Chinese who came from California. Must have been a real hoot for them there to want to come to Canada to build a railroad with their blood and bones.

Are you tracking now?

Do you have the first clue as to what happened to whom and when it happened?

	05-07-2005 13:18									#115
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn If guilty is how you're feeling then clearly guilt isn't a strong enough emotion for what I want. I want the discussion to move beyond "ouch!, that sucked... now lets celebrate that we're at least not as bad as Nazi Germany". Thats complacent crap.

All I can say, and I think I can say this on behalf of most of the people of Canada, is go shoot what you think we should do up yer butt.

We're not your whipping people to take out the frustrations of your own inadequacies back home.

	05-07-2005 13:22									#116
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither How are we doing so far on being clueless about humiliation? Are you following?

Incidently. How did you get the value of the money right when you were wrong on the years by 20 to 40?

	05-07-2005 13:30									#117
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quote: Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh [Have you heard of David Warren - lead columnist of the Ottawa Citizen, or the entire National Post?]

Oh. So now an entire newspaper is the Canadian equivalent of Rush Limbaugh.

I knew what I was walking into, but again, I was hoping the blatherer would be induced by a sense of dignity to call it quits after he had his shorts pulled over his head the first time, but NOOOOOOO....

Jimmy comes back for more. What a champ!

	05-07-2005 13:37									#118
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quote: [what about Haiti and Afghanistan, *******?]

What about Haiti and Afghanistan?

In the second case we were treaty bound to lend assistance to an ally attacked, just like the rest of NATO, and then we are bound to stay and clean up the mess. What have we done wrong now?

As for Haiti, just what do you have against Canadian military units being used to prevent the disintegration of civil order in a poor country? Is it that they are black? You think we should leave them to stew in their juices? I know! Maybe we should let them get a good Rwanda going. That way we could feel more guilt!

WTF are you talking about when you say 'what about Haiti and Afghanistan, *******?'???

We're really puzzled.

	05-07-2005 13:39									#119
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Jimmy? The light's gone out Jimmy. Please tell us that you were serious about you wanting us to take you serious. It will break our hearts if you let us down.

Jimmy?

	05-07-2005 13:48									#120
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And the piece de résistance. Jimmy, you're a real hoot. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

quote: We have no genuinely dangerous public figures like Tom Delay or Donald Rumsfeld [What about our Prime Minister, or Stephen Harper, Mike Harris, Gordon Campbell - do I need to go on?].

Yes. Yes, you need to go on. You need to explain how anyone right of Mao on the Canadian political landscape (that would be everyone, Jimmy) is eqivalent to you as Delay and Rumsfeld are to a very bitter, and very disaffected American.

Please, show us the light, Jimmy!