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Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 05:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
So how could you even possibly consider killing capitalists to install a Communist regime? That's just bull ****.


When it comes to the crunch they are the ones that will start the killing.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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It's like this. The revolution is coming, and we want to win.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Letting the capitalists live is morally right


If they don't use all means at their disposal, regardless how unethical they are, to brutally suppress any revolutionary movement first...

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
and practically necessary, since they will have much of the technical knowledge needed to run society.


Actually, I say most technical knowledge is with specialised workers now.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


When it comes to the crunch they are the ones that will start the killing.


How do you know that? And even so, two wrongs don't make it right. God Agathon, you're acting like a child.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
How do you know that? And even so, two wrongs don't make it right. God Agathon, you're acting like a child.


If the other side is out to kill you what's wrong with killing them?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 08:33
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Precisely, UR. By your logic it would be a good idea for some loyalist Canadians to infiltrate the group under discussion and grease them before they have a chance to grease anyone else.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear

How do you know that? And even so, two wrongs don't make it right. God Agathon, you're acting like a child.


I don't think so. I'm not the one overreacting to obviously flippant comments.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 06-07-2005 09:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Chegitz Guevara
There is a difference between saying, "we plan to kill ..." and "and go kill ..." The latter is incitement, the former is not.


And this is why nye's posts are a bunch of bollocks. He can't differentiate between 'sedition' and 'incitement of violence'. Banning one is consistent with freedom of speech (since it isn't really speech, but a command) and the other is not. (Though I love bringing Waco into it. A 'compound' that opens fire against the FBI is the same as any Communist organization that merely advocates revolution... ).

Saying that advocating violent overthrow of the government should be against the law is a GREAT affront to free speech. As long as violence is not actually engaged in, what is the big deal?

It's like someone saying (and actually meaning) "Someone should kick the crap out of Senator X". We don't arrest that person. Advocating violence and carrying it out are different things.

In the US, the arresting of people for mere sedition in our past is seen as something utterly horrible (Alien & Sedition Act of the 1790s), even when done when we were the good guys (Civil War, WW1).

quote:
Actually, I say most technical knowledge is with specialised workers now.


I think they be better identified with the petit bourgeoisie, and would find themselves more in agreement with the capitalists.

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 06-07-2005 at 09:54

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 09:46 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I never said what you quoted me as saying. That was chegitz. Please edit that...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Precisely, UR. By your logic it would be a good idea for some loyalist Canadians to infiltrate the group under discussion and grease them before they have a chance to grease anyone else.


The fatal flaw in your argument is it is not based on actual actions while mine is.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 09:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


I don't think so. I'm not the one overreacting to obviously flippant comments.


Flippant, perhaps, but any comment is fair game.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger

If the other side is out to kill you what's wrong with killing them?


Somehow I highly doubt the majority of Capitalists are out to kill the Communists.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
If they don't use all means at their disposal, regardless how unethical they are, to brutally suppress any revolutionary movement first...


Since the've already done that, there's nothing to apologize for.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 11:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


And this is why nye's posts are a bunch of bollocks. He can't differentiate between 'sedition' and 'incitement of violence'. Banning one is consistent with freedom of speech (since it isn't really speech, but a command) and the other is not. (Though I love bringing Waco into it. A 'compound' that opens fire against the FBI is the same as any Communist organization that merely advocates revolution... ).

Saying that advocating violent overthrow of the government should be against the law is a GREAT affront to free speech. As long as violence is not actually engaged in, what is the big deal?


It is against the law. The distinction being that the authorities are unlikely to do much about a bunch of kids mouthing off, but are very likely to get really interested if any actions started being taken.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 11:25
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Saying 'I'll kill you' is against the law as well, but is also unlikely to result in a charge unless the police have something more to go on than a heated argument.

I'm still waiting to hear what the status of AQ and Hamas are in the US. I'm sure that sympathizers are having their rights to free speech respected.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 11:35
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quote:
Somehow I highly doubt the majority of Capitalists are out to kill the Communists


Yeah, the Capitalists are too busy selling the communists guns.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear


Flippant, perhaps, but any comment is fair game.


Even the one where I invited Ted to roast marshmallows by the light of burning Republicans?

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 17:21
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
"Optimized for Internet Explorer 6."
Great, That means Bill gates has allready assimilated all groups more productive and useful that the sticking French-Cannuck commies. After them what is next down the list? The association of telephone sanitizers?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 19:16 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Yeah, the Capitalists are too busy selling the communists guns.




I like you BK

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 22:03 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
How do you know that?


History. Capitalists have been killing the workers for standing up for themselves since there have been capitalists and workers. Every workers' revolt has been met by massacre and bloodshed. It goes back centuries. The worst, of course, was the Russian Civil War, where the capitalists killed millions, and even started the bloodshed in an otherwise bloodless revolution, with the massacre of 500 Reds in Moscow who had surrendered to them.

This is where Communism was defeated, not in 1989. By breaking the revolution, by beating it down and maiming it, but not killing it off, it ensured the dream became a nightmare. Just to stay alive, it became a monster. Communism became it's opposite, but only because of capitalist violence.

If we were to vote in socialism, and I mean real socialism, and not welfare capitalism, the capitalists would revolt, and the workers would be forced to defend themselves with violence.

Usually it doesn't come to that, because either the socialists back down or the capitalists launch a pre-emptive strike, before the socialists can get powerful enough to legally assume power. That's when communist revolution comes to be on the agenda.

If you are making a soufflé and someone comes in and bangs the oven door, causing your soufflé to fall, that doesn't make you a bad chef.

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
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Dec 2001
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 22:26
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quote:
Capitalists have been killing the workers for standing up for themselves since there have been capitalists and workers


I would not be supprised if communits actually hold the record for workers killed/time existed. Pretty sure Mao clinched it all by himself.

And of couse communists are in to killing pretty much anyone.

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 22:33
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i love it, according to che the reason communism always sucks donkey balls is becuase of the capitalists

Ninot is offline Ninot
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 22:34
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I thought that according to Marxism, the communist revolution is inevitable.

If Capitalism can easily hold it down by killing a few of its members in the early stages, then that seems contradictory.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 22:41
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No, we greedy capitalists are forcefully keeping the economic system that everyone wants down by forcing all but 1% of the voters to cast their ballots for non-communist parties.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninot
I thought that according to Marxism, the communist revolution is inevitable.


Yes. So worrying about communists killing people is besides the point. The real question is whether such a revolution would be largely peaceful. Past experience suggests not. Then again, capitalism is in its way better than the aristocracy, and we have capitalism largely because of violent revolution.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


Even the one where I invited Ted to roast marshmallows by the light of burning Republicans?


Yes.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:38
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


History. Capitalists have been killing the workers for standing up for themselves since there have been capitalists and workers. Every workers' revolt has been met by massacre and bloodshed. It goes back centuries. The worst, of course, was the Russian Civil War, where the capitalists killed millions, and even started the bloodshed in an otherwise bloodless revolution, with the massacre of 500 Reds in Moscow who had surrendered to them.

This is where Communism was defeated, not in 1989. By breaking the revolution, by beating it down and maiming it, but not killing it off, it ensured the dream became a nightmare. Just to stay alive, it became a monster. Communism became it's opposite, but only because of capitalist violence.

If we were to vote in socialism, and I mean real socialism, and not welfare capitalism, the capitalists would revolt, and the workers would be forced to defend themselves with violence.

Usually it doesn't come to that, because either the socialists back down or the capitalists launch a pre-emptive strike, before the socialists can get powerful enough to legally assume power. That's when communist revolution comes to be on the agenda.

If you are making a soufflé and someone comes in and bangs the oven door, causing your soufflé to fall, that doesn't make you a bad chef.


Look, correct me if I'm wrong here but, since when is Canadian soceity ANYTHING like pre-civil war Russia? The fact is, Canada is so much more liberal and modern than any country back in the 20th or 19th century, that it's not even comparable. And nevermind the Communist pseud-Fascist all throughout the world that have caused the deaths of MILLIONS. I find it hard to believe that the Communist regimes killed no Capitalists during their takovers.

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:46
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quote:
And nevermind the Communist pseud-Fascist all throughout the world that have caused the deaths of MILLIONS. I find it hard to believe that the Communist regimes killed no Capitalists during their takovers.


Every once and awhile they take a short break from killing workers for their own good to off a few capitalists for forms sake.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:58
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yeah, I remembered as soon as I left the library. This is in the wrong thread. Oh well.

The difference between Hitler and Stalin is the difference between losing your child to a drunk driver and losing him / her to a child molester-murderer. Both are absolutely horrible, and in both cases, the killer is absolutely responsible. But one is far worse.


I'd like to argue that being sent to work in Siberia, having little to no food at all, and then being shot when you lose your ability to work is very close to what the Nazis did in most of their time as leaders.

Ninot is offline Ninot
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  Old Post 06-07-2005 23:59
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so which one is which?

is Hitler the mollester, or the drunk driver?

 
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