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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:19
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quote:
I am saying that people have been detained for their sympathies. If you wish to deny that you are worse than a fool, you are a dangerous fool. |
I see... so someone is a fool for denying something said by someone who has only circumstantial evidence, at best. If people are being detained for their sympathies, why so few? Why not the vast numbers of people who may hold such sympathies.
Could it be because the authorities believed that the detainees may have been involved in terrorist activities (actually activities, not just saying wouldn't it be nice)? And perhaps they attempted to misuse the law because while they believed those people may have been involved, they didn't have conclusive proof of that fact? Perhaps they were mistaken, but to assume that mistakes don't happen in law enforcement is fanciful (many innocents have been detained for interrogation or whatnot even before 9/11).
It simply makes no sense to say that people have been detained because of their sympathies, or else it'd be far, far, far more than the numbers actually detained, including plenty in my Muslim community back home who may have felt that the US deserved it (none of whom have been detained, btw).
If you want to stick to your fantasies so you can somehow justify going after anarchist groups, go right ahead.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
I would not be supprised if communits actually hold the record for workers killed/time existed. Pretty sure Mao clinched it all by himself. |
You'd be extremely incorrect, but you're likely used to that by now. Most of the people who died under Mao were peasants, not workers. That also goes for Stalin. Not that peasants don't count, but it just illustrates you're wrong.
For a single slaughterer of workers, the record easily goes to Hitler, since he started WWII. As a system, capitalism is easily more deadly. Tens of millions of lives were ground in the machinery of capital to create the wealth we have today. If we have better lives today, it's because our society rests on a foundation of blood.
Even as murderous as Stalin and Mao both were, life expectancies for the USSR and PRC went up during their misrule. China, which had had a famine every other year, has had only one since the revolution. The USSR had only two, one of which was deliberate.
Capitalism, on the other hand, sees the deaths of tens of millions in its empire every year, people who die simply because it isn't profitable enough to feed them a few pennies worth of sollution to stop them from dying from diarhea from the common cold, or because it isn't profitable to feed them.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninot
Ok, fair enough. Those were pretty much my thoughts too.
Although I did think there might possibly be a way to see Stalin as a mollestor/killer with the hole Gulag thing, but i dont wanna argue the point. |
Most of the people sent to the gulag were sent there for common crimes, not political ones. Read A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch.
Edit: Also, most of the deaths in the gulag system occured during the war, because of the lack of food (the USSR's bread basket being in Nazi hands). If your choice is between feeding prisoners and feeding soldiers to fend off an invasion, guess who's going to get the short end of the stick.
Last edited by chegitz guevara on 08-07-2005 at 21:52
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Patroklos
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Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:19
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quote:
You'd be extremely incorrect, but you're likely used to that by now. Most of the people who died under Mao were peasants, not workers. That also goes for Stalin. Not that peasants don't count, but it just illustrates you're wrong. |
HA!!!
That has to be the best communist slither/wiggle move I have seen so far. Peasents aren't workers because Marx says so, god you guys really are lost in your world of paper theories.
quote:
Capitalism, on the other hand, sees the deaths of tens of millions in its empire every year, people who die simply because it isn't profitable enough to feed them a few pennies worth of sollution to stop them from dying from diarhea from the common cold, or because it isn't profitable to feed them. |
Same goes for communsim. Did more people starve under capitalist America or Soviet Russia between 1917-1981? Very weak arguement.
So I resubmit...
quote:
I would not be supprised if communits actually hold the record for workers killed/time existed. Pretty sure Mao clinched it all by himself. |
War dead is always tricky, I can't attribute the communist war dead because of the communist system itself, but then again if the communist cause has required such deaths for its continued exisitance and you all require a violent confrontation with the capitalists, they are results of the communist system.
WWII Soviet war casuatlies died under Stalin for the sake of communism. Hence, by the hand of communism.
+15-20 million to communism's total.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
HA!!!
That has to be the best communist slither/wiggle move I have seen so far. Peasents aren't workers because Marx says so, . . . [insert insult here] |
Ha nothing. Peasants aren't workers and no one says they are, except you just now. Peasants have always been considered their own class.
quote:
Same goes for communsim. Did more people starve under capitalist America or Soviet Russia between 1917-1981? Very weak arguement. |
Not really. Which country was an advanced industrial economy in 1917? Which country just had suffered three years of devastating war, and had four more years of civil war, the invasion of forteen countries to fend off, and then fought the main brunt of Nazi Germany on their own soil? You cannot reasonably compare the two countries.
Still, if you include the whole of the American empire, many more millions starved to death in our empire than theirs. The Black Book of Communism lays 100,000,000 dead at their feet over the seven decades of Communist rule. The capitalist world manages that every decade.
quote:
War dead is always tricky, |
Not really. Those who start an aggressive war are responsible. Hitler started WWII in Europe and Africa. Hitler is to blame for all those deaths. Those who died in the war would not have done so had Hitler not started it. I don't blame the U.S. for the deaths it caused in the war, because it didn't start the war. Japan and the rest of the Axis carry that burden.
Anyway, we don't require a violent confrontation with the capitalists, we just think it is inevitable. I am happy to be proven wrong. We just think that the capitalist will initiate violence when we come close to our goals peacefully, and that will necessitate violent self-defence.
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07-07-2005 14:02
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