26-07-2005 03:37									#181
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Commy, are these on different computers by any chance?

	26-07-2005 04:29									#182
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Commie -- I find the game very weird about starting locations-- It would be a major improvement iof the game came with

1. a better algorithm for fair starts on a random map-- might allow PBEMS to be played without so much CMN effort AND

2. a set of 10 or 12 maps that you can choose to play on. They could be as diverse as the veterans map, the ultimate builders map and a bunch of interesting custom maps that folks like Darsnan and googlie have come up with

	26-07-2005 08:24									#183
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I thought there were predetermined possible landing sites on the Map of Planet though. I tend to get one of three spots around the freshwater sea or NW on the middle island or up top on the big continent. But yeah I also find that 80% of the time I start around the freshwater sea somewhere.
I also would have liked to have seen more premade maps come with the game, because the standard map of planet is (imo) really good, whereas the random ones tend to be...errr....not as good.
There's a thread in the creation forum with tweaked settings for the worldbuilder, which make it MUCH better at generating decent random maps.

	26-07-2005 19:31									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Ka Plewy Commy, are these on different computers by any chance?

Yes and no...I currently have SMAC installed on my computer, my dad's computer, and my dad's laptop...

All have slightly different ratios for starting spot probabilities...though this happens when I reinstall SMAC on my own computer, so I don't think it is because the computers are different...

The most common spot on Map of Planet (let's call it MoP) is by a bonus mineral on the Fresh water Sea...

However, there is a spot about 5 squares northwest that is also near a bonus mineral and the freshwater sea...I rarely will get this spot at my computer at home, but on my dad's, I get it almost as much as the first spot mentioned...

Another common spot is on a river system in the middle of the large continent in the east, the one with the Monsoon Jungle...for probably the first year of owning SMAC, this was only one of three or four spots I'd get on this continent...now, there is almost 10 different spots, 3 of them all being within a one square radius of eachother...

There used to be only one spot on Mount Planet, but now just in the last few months, there has been 2 other spots that I actually get quite often...

	27-07-2005 08:44									#185
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I've reinstalled the game after a break and I'm dealing with these Free Market issues right now. I'm playing a scenario a friend made for me (a Large Transcend game where the AI get a headstart with more colony pods and good starting positions, and they all hate me).

I'm playing Morgan and I've gone for thin expansion (lots of colony pods) running Free Market beelineing for IA and Treefarms. The expansion has gone well but I've now run into Lal who has researched A5 (attack 5) weapon and has declared war on me. My military was inferior to his but I defeated his attack waves by bribing enemy units and generally exploiting the dumb military AI. Now that his first attack waves are defeated I've taken one of his cities and hes offering a truce.

My empire is already big enough to win the game just through vertical expansion so I don't need more territory.

Now I have these options:
1) Take the truce, concentrate on vertical expansion. Reinforce my borders for the inevitable second war (the scenario starts me with a bad reputation so the AI all hate me)
2) Refuse the truce, continue to take Lals bases. Remain in Free Market
3) Refuse the truce, continue to take Lals bases. Drop back to a simple economy to simplify the war (Morgan can't run planned and I haven't discovered Green)

Options 2 and 3 both involve slowing my vertical growth in a number of cities to build and maintain military units, the interior of my empire can continue to expand vertically but I'll be spending alot of my money on the war effort (bribes and upgrades) instead of rush building infrastructure. The question is do I stay in Free Market or drop to simple economy (for the war)?

Option 1 means I can concentrate my efforts on vertical expansion. I can rely on a relatively small border force that can be supplemented with bribed units when Lal declares war again. This will though give Lal time to regroup and starting pumping out another wave of A5 units.

My normal turtle strategy is to keep my nearest neighbour happy with tech bribes until I've built a massive economy, then launch total war. But that won't work in this case because Lal hates me. I need the most time efficient strategy because all the other empires are allied with each other and the Giains started in the middle of the forest special location and are expanding like wildfire.

Keep in mind I also disallow myself the use of crawlers when playing against the AI.

Tony

	27-07-2005 12:11									#186
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You forgot:

4) Pummel Lal and force him into a submission pact.

edit: Stay in FM, but go Fundamentalist to make it a short war.

	29-07-2005 07:47									#187
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Get Cyberethics, and build the Planetary Datalinks...then, it won't matter if the AI doesn't give you tech, they won't have a choice...

Anyway, if I were you, I'd take the truce, build vertical growth, and then start up an airforce and drop units...that's all you should need to take out the AI...

	29-07-2005 16:29									#188
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Morgie can be a fearsome green warrior.

Oft times the best approach is a detour in the beeline to pick up fundy and green.

Fundy Green Wealth allows Morgie tremendous warring capability in either conventional or native modes. Econ at +2 allows rush builds as required all the whille having a +1 Industry. The -1 morale is no big.

If running natives you negate much of the support hit Morgie is saddled with as you keep the natives in the fungus for worm trolling/upgrade duties.

True it does slow down your tech rate but certainly allows for a fearsome yellow machine otherwise.

	02-08-2005 00:26									#189
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More on Fundy/Wealth for Morgan:

-1 Morale is completely negated with the construction of Creches, such that your units are built with full morale gaining the full effect of any and all facility morale upgrades.

A hidden advantage of Fundy/Wealth is that your probe rating is quite strong, which makes for stronger probe teams. Coupled with your respectable income, you can combine conquest with buying bases outright.

It's difficult to express how much this SE setting combined with strong infrastructure turns Morgan into a dominating military machine.

	02-08-2005 12:08									#190
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quote: -1 Morale is completely negated with the construction of Creches, such that your units are built with full morale gaining the full effect of any and all facility morale upgrades.

The creche bonus only works in bases and looks like "(++++)" or something similar after units morale level ("green", "hardened", etc).

Units are not created with full bonuses.

It takes 10-15 minutes to check.

And another Fundy/Wealth "hidden" bonus:

-2morale + -1morale = -1morale which does not halve the facility bonuses, thus if you have a special base for building military having:

1.high min output (for building and support).
2.PS (for Free Market drone killing)
3.All possible/needed morale bonus facilities

you can have -1 + 4 = +3 morale (veteran) units out of factory, then a visit to mono and you have commandos.

If you have them "trained" it's even better for you - for little cost increase you get HUGE mobility and combat ability increase as per upgrade from commando to elite.


Thanks to Mongoose for showing this strat to me.

	02-08-2005 15:14									#191
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Even better, since you're Morgan, build trained shells, then upgrade them to what you really want.

	02-08-2005 15:16									#192
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quote: Even better, since you're Morgan, build trained shells, then upgrade them to what you really want.

Yeah, but then you should also add "clean" to offset the mineral loss while those units are not really needed (if there is such period.. ).

	02-08-2005 16:59									#193
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You can add clean if you want to stockpile shells, but I prefer spending extra minerals on drop, or increasing the weapon to missile launchers. The former allows you to get defenders where needed, in a hurry, and the latter deducts 50 energy from the cost to upgrade the shell to an offensive unit, useful if your best weapons are substantially better than missile launchers.

	02-08-2005 17:12									#194
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I'm a HUGE fan of Fundy/Wealth because the difference between -1 morale and -2 morale is BIG.

That said, it is even better than you say. At least with negative morale, a creche adds a +1 morale bonus to any unit built in that city (in addition to the pluses inside the base). It doesn't appear as a + but an actual upgrade (veteran to commando etc) that is only removed if the unit is transferred to the control of a base without a creche (and probably if the creche is destroyed, I don't know).
So a base with creche/command centre/bioenhancement centre will produce commando units at -1 society morale, and elite units straight out of the gates with the trained upgrade. Without the creche, they're veteran and commando respectively.
So if you've got creches and trained shells, you don't even need a monolith.

	02-08-2005 17:39									#195
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need to test that, never occured to me, or am I too unwary maybe?

	02-08-2005 17:59									#196
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I've been recently trawling through the archives, and there was a great huge thread about exactly how the various weird creche morale bonuses actually worked - I wish I could find it again to link it because it was damn good.
But I've tested it many a time myself, though more often with Domai (elite troops for 6 minerals/row? yes please ).
And I tested it again just before I posted, just to make sure I wasn't being an idiot, and at -1 morale troops that were coming out commando (untrained) came out as veteran after I scrapped my creche.

	02-08-2005 18:14									#197
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Nice, means you don't even need trained!

	02-08-2005 18:37									#198
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I don't think this was the thread, but very useful info on negative morale and creches and whatnot (particularly Tau Ceti's post):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=72944

	02-08-2005 20:08									#199
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I've written a Treatise on Morale for the ACDG Spartan Federation, and last week or so submitted a slightly editied version to buster for the SMAC Academy on CGN. Stay tuned for the full answers on all your morale questions!