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Jon Miller
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no
the fact that He lived His life sinless, and that He was the son of God, are both relevant
and his teachings are relevant too many
but what is especially relevant to Christians, what is key to being Christian
is that Christ, who was without sin, died for us, who are sinners
and on the third day, He rose again
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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as for me, the movie was very strong
and most protestant denominations don't focus much on Christs physical suffering (in fact, I think that they focus more on the ressurection then do catholics)
and I am fine with that
but Christ's suffering, including physically
is part of the death, which is key to Him being Christ (without dying there could be no forgiveness of sin) and to us, as sinners, being able to be saved
as such I appreciated it, and would like to own it (I think)
but I don't plan on watching it again in the near future
Jon Miller
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:19
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quote:
what makes Jesus different for Christians, is His death and ressurection |
Does that mean Christians find his teachings invalid without his death and resurrection? Strange, Jesus lamented how people needed miracles. Faith in his teachings or faith that he died and was resurrected, i,e, one last miracle for those lacking faith in his teachings.
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Taking one post and quoting seven different passages is parsing exemplified. |
If those 7 passages make 7 points, it isn't parsing to respond to each point.
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So you didn't like the movie. |
I haven't seen it, I said I wasn't interested in seeing some gut get flayed for 2 hours.
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Doesn't mean we have to 'jack this thread into a debate about religion, however. |
You gotta be kidding!
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:19
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Parsing -
1 To break (a sentence) down into its component parts of speech with an explanation of the form, function, and syntactical relationship of each part.
2 To describe (a word) by stating its part of speech, form, and syntactical relationships in a sentence.
edit: I don't see where I did that once to Ozzy's post, even when I was just joking with my responses.
Last edited by Berzerker on 08-07-2005 at 08:11
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:19
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Boris, no I'm not saying he suffered the most. He took a beating. But a bad one. Happens every day around the world.
The thing is, I don't think the violence used was THAT bad like people make it to sound. It FELT bad. It LOOKED bad. It was GRAPHIC. But facts remains facts, he took some whipping, that tored skin, and then what? Carried the cross, check, got crucified, check.. basically what people are saying is that the whipping part was super and never happened, couldn't have happened etc.
Well. I'm saying it wasn't THAT bad, even though if man goes through that, it's very bad. I'm saying it isn't the ultimate violence flick, what you saw was some nasty whipping. Oh and he got whipped.
So..
cry babies.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:19
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Anyone who thinks this movie was anti-semitici is an idiot.
Anyone who gets all fired up that Jews were part of killing Jesus because of this film is an idiot. |
Are they idiots for being sensitive to images of Jews murdering God given how many centuries they suffered at the hands of "Christians"? I dont know why you're blind to their rationale. Even I understand it and I'm quite insensitive. How many Jews have to die because of Jesus?
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Anyone who thinks to see something else than the killing of Jesus when portraying the last 12 hours of his life ... does not go into any other category. |
Yup, people who don't want to see someone get flayed for 2 hours. You may be a Christian and you may feel some need to see it, but dont hang your complex on the rest of us. If it wasn't about Jesus but just some guy lost in the sands of time, would you watch?
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If you don't want to see 'a snuff film', then I suggest you don't go to see where one is guaranteed, and get all disappointed. |
Geez, another one of those "dont watch it" responses?
YOU ASKED WHY PEOPLE WERE OFFENDED! Did you ask that expecting no answer? Then upon getting an answer you tell people not to watch it? Well DUH! Topping that off by calling people idiots is 
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Sounds like someone is trying to DOWNPLAY the suffering Jesus took. That's disrespectful as far as I see it. |
Then change the channel. Howdya like them apples?
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There were many points the movie made, but if you were distracted by the violence in it, well I guess you should stick with comedies. |
Thanks again for the advice. 
Here's your argument: "you dont want to watch a man get flayed for 2 hours? You are an idiot!"
Now go smack yourself in the forehead to show your respect for Jesus
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:19
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Berz, yeah they are idiots. And as far as I think, mostm people who cry this thing aren't even Jewish people. This ain't the united world of the offended. People getting upset, they have the right to get upset and raise their voice. So what? I'm sure few people got offended from Shrek 2 as well.
"Yup, people who don't want to see someone get flayed for 2 hours. You may be a Christian and you may feel some need to see it, but dont hang your complex on the rest of us. If it wasn't about Jesus but just some guy lost in the sands of time, would you watch? "
Hey it's not a 'complex', it's just the fact that I can read and understand, that if I go to see last 12 hours, that's what it will most likely be! What is this? Open microphone night for idiots all of the sudden? If I saw a movie coming out about 2 hours of beating up some random dude, I prolly wouldn't go see it, because it wouldn't interest me. But who knows! Who plays the guy getting beat up? Who directs it?!
But I'd be an idiot if I came out of the theater crying how violent it was, since I was going in there to see that in teh first place.
"Geez, another one of those "dont watch it" responses? "
Yeah if it gets your panties in a twist, but if you however do go and watch it, don't wo nder why peopel call you an idiot. If you go see a porn movie, you're an idiot if you come back crying it had nudity in it.
""you dont want to watch a man get flayed for 2 hours? You are an idiot!" "
This is not my point and this is false analogy. I suggest you go smack yourself in the head. At least I can read better than you can. I read my posts again, just in case you say 'well you can't write?!+2423´+0'. Yes I can. Results of ghetto education can be seen in your reading abilities.
It's sad really...  And while you're at it, stop hating Jesus!
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Does that mean Christians find his teachings invalid without his death and resurrection? Strange, Jesus lamented how people needed miracles. Faith in his teachings or faith that he died and was resurrected, i,e, one last miracle for those lacking faith in his teachings.
If those 7 passages make 7 points, it isn't parsing to respond to each point.
I haven't seen it, I said I wasn't interested in seeing some gut get flayed for 2 hours.
You gotta be kidding! |
The Resurrection wasn't just a miracle.
Read Paul to see what it means.
It is the reason why their is Christianity...
JM
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Does that mean Christians find his teachings invalid without his death and resurrection? Strange, Jesus lamented how people needed miracles. Faith in his teachings or faith that he died and was resurrected, i,e, one last miracle for those lacking faith in his teachings.
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you don't understand Christianity at all
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
The Resurrection of the Dead
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
The Resurrection Body
35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[g]
55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"[h] 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
Paul says it plain as day. His death and resurrection are not just miracles, meant to support peoples faith. No, instead they are the key points of Christianity. They are what makes Christ something other then a good man. (and there are lots of good men, many not even Christian, but I don't follow them, I don't worship them, they did not save me)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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it wasn't rewritten for political reasons 1000s of times
our current Bibles are made from fragments found from 90-200 AD (some perhaps earlier) and it would take a huge cynic to think that everything was heavily modified between the writing and the copies we have
if the catholic church didn't highly modify the Bible, when they were the sole caretakers of it (and look at how corrupt they were during some of the time), then it seems to me as if the sources weren't modified in the few years between when they were written, and when we have actual copies from
the movie is fairly in keeping with the Bible, and is fairly Catholic (for things that I noticed that weren't in the Bible) and as such is to be expected
How was is slanderous do jews? Unless you beleive that the whole Bible is slanderous to jews. And most Christians would say the film was basically historically correct.
I can post what the Bible says about His death if some of you need that.
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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by fairly catholic I am meaning that there was a huge focus on Mary, and that there were a number of times that I thought, oh, this is meant to explain a holy artifact
JM
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08-07-2005 07:30
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