08-07-2005 18:10									#481
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Exactly you can't check every person on the street at all times, and restricting what people can carry is unreasonable.

We still need to maintain our freedoms.

	08-07-2005 18:18									#482
	Inflate your Upload Space

Patroling sniffer dog teams wouldn't affect our freedom too much. Anyway i think the freedom issue is one the PM is very aware of - ID cards will have more support now, so this act of terror will inevitably lead to us having less freedoms. I'd rather have a spot check on my bag than my bio-metric details on a government database as a means to foil a terrorist anyday.

	08-07-2005 18:23									#483
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Somebody said here that once the terract has occured everything has finished. I hope so, however... I dont want to be a killjoy but a thing nobody has mentioned yet is that at this moment the terrorist cell is at 100% and active. If police cant stop them they surely will try ti act again in the next days in London.

Last edited by Thorgal on 08-07-2005 at 18:31

	08-07-2005 18:31									#484
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Yes, exactly why we shouldn't relax our gaurd - we need to increase our vigulance just in case. Ask about that bag no-one is holding(stuff i do anyway), be alert. sucks but we have to deal with it now.
Still if they had any sense the guys that did this evil thing will be long gone, i hope so anyway - dont need anymore of this s**t for the time being

	08-07-2005 18:42									#485
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I know its not the best news source (by far)

but CNN was talking about the "miracle" of 2 dead on the bus this morning. Either they're too lazy to try and get an update on that and want to leave it there, or that really is the total.

I find that hard to believe tho.

but they also reported that they haven't been able to get very far into King's Crossing yet, because the wreckage is so bad that's its keeping them out of where the real damage to human life must be. So the casualty number can still climb quite a bit.

	08-07-2005 19:23									#486
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I remember traveling the UK and was stuck by the small things that spoke to their IMO far superior security measures vs. the US.

Simple things like having no trash cans on the train platforms were explained to me a reasoned response to previous IRA trash can bombings.

And yet despite all this...

	08-07-2005 19:30									#487
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I wonder whether the London tube has teh same feature as the French RER: It's impossible to put bags under the seats. Before the explosion in Paris way back you could put a bag under the seat, which was actually practical, but you no longer can. That makes spotting abandonned luggage easier.

	08-07-2005 19:41									#488
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Just heard on the radio that more then 2 people have died on the bus. Couldn't hear if it was 13 or 30, and bbc hasn't got anything yet on their site.

	08-07-2005 19:47									#489
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare I wonder whether the London tube has teh same feature as the French RER: It's impossible to put bags under the seats. Before the explosion in Paris way back you could put a bag under the seat, which was actually practical, but you no longer can. That makes spotting abandonned luggage easier.

Yep. No underseat storage or luggage rails above the seats.

	08-07-2005 19:48									#490
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for sure when you see the pictures of what was left of it........had to be more 2. Or as people were saying a miracle.

	08-07-2005 21:23									#491
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Well today was new:

Saw two people on my team who hadn't made it into work yesterday. One,who travels in from East London, says she'd made it as far as the Angel before managing to get through to us on the phone to be told to turn around again. She says that returning on the bus a police officer boarded the bus and asked that everybody turn out their belongings into their laps so that he could check for suspicious packages. The other says that this morning his tube journey was delayed because at every stop they were boarded by police with sniffer dogs who checked the entire length of the train before letting the train go on.

Mind you, the piccadilly line is completely shut down so it isn't like they have to have a team at every single LU station.

	08-07-2005 22:19									#492
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quote: Originally posted by Panda Well today was new: Saw two people on my team who hadn't made it into work yesterday. One,who travels in from East London, says she'd made it as far as the Angel before managing to get through to us on the phone to be told to turn around again. She says that returning on the bus a police officer boarded the bus and asked that everybody turn out their belongings into their laps so that he could check for suspicious packages. The other says that this morning his tube journey was delayed because at every stop they were boarded by police with sniffer dogs who checked the entire length of the train before letting the train go on. Mind you, the piccadilly line is completely shut down so it isn't like they have to have a team at every single LU station.

That seems like a delayed reaction to me (i cant think of a better thing to call it).

The attacks where yesterday. Terrorists dont exactly have a record of attacking the same thing 2 days in a row, and I highly doubt this kind of vigilence is gonna last.

	08-07-2005 22:41									#493
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Confirmed number of dead on the bus is at 13 now.

49 people confirmed dead in total so far. It'll definitely go over 50, but we're told that it won't go as high as 100.

	08-07-2005 22:48									#494
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what's it like to have your city terror bombed?

Dare I say one gets used to it- London experienced decades of I.R.A. & I.N.L.A. bombing campaigns- we've seen embassies occupied, policewomen shot from inside embassies, railway stations bombed, army barracks bombed,- but guess what ?


Life goes on, more or less as normal.

I've lived in Coventry and worked in a mediaeval almshouse that is situated a stone's throw from where an I.R.A. terrorist blew himself up in the 1970s.

I studied in Manchester, where when I was living there the Libyans attempted to assassinate a dissident with a bomb and the Ba'ath secret service killed an Iraqi dissident.

You defeat terror by recognising that they win when you alter your life to suit their tactics.

As a great man said, and Aaron Neville sang, all we have to fear is fear itself.

" So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. "

Franklin Delano Roosevelt



This morning I happily used London's transport system to get from where I live (walking past the Islamic Centre at the end of my street) to where my friend lives in Stoke Newington- an area full of Kurdish and Turkish shops and supermarkets.

Passed a splendid Turco-Persian style mosque and managed not to get attacked by any deranged Islamists.


And tomorrow I will go out to Queen's Market and buy my vegetables and tamarind paste and just carry on as normal.

	08-07-2005 23:10									#495
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I read somewhere that IF they act again in next days (maybe they blew themselve up yesterday) it is highly unlikely that the targets will be tube and buses again, too difficult. Maybe some easy targets like train rails in open field (like they tried in Madrid some days after Atocha) or something like that.

	08-07-2005 23:14									#496
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quote: Originally posted by Thorgal I read somewhere that IF they act again in next days (maybe they blew themselve up yesterday) it is highly unlikely that the targets will be tube and buses again, too difficult. Maybe some easy targets like train rails in open field (like they tried in Madrid some days after Atocha) or something like that.

All they have to do is carry a shopping bag from a supermarket, as I did tonight coming home. They could easily have an explosive device hidden in it.

Nobody checked it because that's what hundreds of thousands of people carry after they leave work and head home.

The perils of a free society....

	08-07-2005 23:29									#497
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom You defeat terror by recognising that they win when you alter your life to suit their tactics.

Good on ya Brits. The great thing about the Brit culture is its ability to say we not going to let you get to us. Carry on with life.

The Brits showed his during the Blitz, during the IRA bombings, I'm sure they'll do it again.

	09-07-2005 01:01									#498
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I think it is silly not to change your behavior at all, the government must adapt, but the way people live their lives and spend their free time shouldn't change because of this.

	09-07-2005 01:56									#499
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom You defeat terror by recognising that they win when you alter your life to suit their tactics.

So if the British ignore the attack and go to work as if nothing happened, they win? You can't ignore the deaths of 50+ innocent people.

Ignoring terrorism will not defeat it! Destroying terrorism will defeat it!

	09-07-2005 02:07									#500
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat You can't ignore the deaths of 50+ innocent people.

Why not? We're all doing that on an hourly basis. (less, even)

	09-07-2005 02:09									#501
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For the average London commuter destroying terrorism isn't really possible, living your life as before is. By continuing to commute into and around London as before I deny their actions the goal that they seek - fear and restrictions.

	09-07-2005 02:10									#502
	Put an end to popups!

I guess this will be post number 500

Instead of having this thread closed and a new one started, we will just let this one go.

Remember... no trolling, put politics in the other thread, and be civil.

Carry on.

	09-07-2005 02:10									#503
	Full PM-box? Change here!

EDIT: I forgot I wasn't in the "politics" thread.

	09-07-2005 02:19									#504
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat So if the British ignore the attack and go to work as if nothing happened, they win? You can't ignore the deaths of 50+ innocent people. Ignoring terrorism will not defeat it! Destroying terrorism will defeat it!

Defiantly continuing with your life is not "ignoring" anything. It's a gigantic "**** you" to those trying to disrupt our lives and terrorise us.

	09-07-2005 04:06									#505
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I think there has also been a certain sense of inevitability of this happening though under the current circumstances. However I think it is important that we are not deterred from going about our normal lives...the transportation problems wouldn't affect me from going into London and I shall be in there on Sunday (I was going to see if Dauphin fancied a drink tonight earlier on in the week, the main thing that deterred me was the fact that I was absolutely exhausted from all the driving people home yesterday).

Things will be back next to normal in no time, although I am curious how long it will take to get those tube stations back up and running...I presume they will pull out all the stops this weekend to get it working...

	09-07-2005 04:08									#506
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quote: So if the British ignore the attack and go to work as if nothing happened, they win? You can't ignore the deaths of 50+ innocent people. Ignoring terrorism will not defeat it! Destroying terrorism will defeat it!

Rubbish. The way to defeat terrorism is not to panic, and invade countries claiming it's a war. It's not a war because we're against rag-bag common murderers.

The way is to not panic, but to remember who you are.

	09-07-2005 05:11									#507
	Remove this text

There were four American injured. Interestingly enough (to me, if not anybody else), 1/2 of them came from my neck of the woods:

quote: Tennessee sisters injured in London bombings Family: 'Both girls are alert and talkative' Friday, July 8, 2005; Posted: 5:18 p.m. EDT (21:18 GMT) KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- Two sisters injured when a bomb exploded behind them in a London subway car were recovering at a hospital Friday, one with shrapnel wounds in her back and neck and the other undergoing a second surgery on her feet, their family said Friday. In all, four Americans were among the more than 700 people injured when a series of explosions targeted three subway stations and a double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday, State Department spokesman Tom Casey said. Two Americans were treated for injuries and released, and two remained hospitalized Friday, Casey said. He provided no further details, citing privacy regulations. Sisters Kathleen "Katie" Benton, 21, and Emily Benton, 20, were both alert and talkative and were to be moved to a semi-private room Friday so they could be together, their family said on a Web site for Fellowship Church in Knoxville, Tenn. "They were going to spend a week together, hanging out and sightseeing," said Alan Ramsey, a youth minister who spoke with the sisters' parents. "That was day one of their trip." Katie Benton had been in Kenya on a school-related trip and Emily Benton flew to London to meet her, Ramsey said. The bomb blast left Emily Benton with some broken bones and skin missing on her feet. She had surgery Thursday and another operation Friday, Ramsey said. Katie Benton had shrapnel wounds. The sisters were traveling alone during their summer break from college, their father, Dudley Benton, told The Associated Press. The young women's mother, Patty Benton, arrived in London early Friday. Katie Benton is a student at the University of Tennessee, and Emily is a student at Pellissippi State Technical Community College in Knoxville.

	09-07-2005 05:19									#508
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Our small pitch in.

quote: [22:01:37] Topic for #civirc: CivIRC - In memoriam London 7.7.2005

	09-07-2005 06:16									#509
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There was one Australian over there who was lucky enough to also be on holidays in Bali when it got attacked. Solve terrorism: prevent this guy from going on holidays.

	09-07-2005 07:24									#510
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I just found out my cousin was in London staying somewhere in the Russell Square. By the time the bombings started, she already left for the airport by 20 minutes prior. glad she was not among the casualties.

My thoughts are with those who knew someone who was part of this as well as those involved.