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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:37
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Euphorica, nation of Bards and lovers of music, has seen a sad day come to pass in the last 24 hours. Our one-time close allies, the Horde, has chosen the path of betrayal, not only violating our Right of Passage agreement and our Military Alliance, but furthermore violating our Treaty, and destroying a friendship long in the making.
We shared everything with BoH. We shared techs, maps, we shared our roads, we shared our troop numbers and locations, and in return we received solemn promises that our alliance was strong and we could depend on the BoH.
At the end of the day the did what they did knowing full well how dishonourable this despicable act was. It is a sad day when people have to resort to such shameful tactics.
These are the actions of a civilization with no honour.
We invite you to read the following, a description of the alliances and agreements that the BoH has breached and reneged upon, in this cowardly act.
BoH-EU Technology alliance details
Euphorica and the BoH formed a treaty of mutual technological aid early in the game, and carefully wrote such a treaty in Law, allthewhile believing such Law was unnecessary, for our friendship was solid. This treaty promised that both nations would aid each other in technological progress, and would remain non-enemies, for a period of time that was not defined - but rather, that were one group to decide it was no longer in its interest, could break it off with notice given - either one tech, or upon era close after a mutual discussion of the treaty's merits, but not war. BoH proclaimed that we would be allies until the end of the game - "i want to foster long term trust and friendship", and even "but were human and can roleplay over the mechanics - and so do we and if so we would hope for a mutual victory" (later modified to the possibility of determining winner peacefully), and that there was no reason we ever had to resort to military action against one another. Yet, the terms were ultimately included, at the insistence of Euphorica. Needless to say, BoH did not give such notice. The text of this treaty is appended to the post.
Euphorica made this agreement in good faith, and upheld our side of this deal in every way; we identified goodie huts that the BoH benefited from (being expansionist), discovered many technologies that the BoH received from us without direct payment (and of course received technologies from them as well), and negotiated deals with other civilizations that BoH benefited from due to our technological gains. At no point did we withhold a technology from the BoH - this can be easily verified by checking our technology holdings against theirs - and at no time did we play them false.
Military Alliance
Euphorica and BoH agreed to a military alliance against the Desolation Row, and as a result of that alliance BoH and Euphorica agreed to a Right of Passage agreement allowing the BoH to travel on Euphoriscian roads, so to speed up their traversal to the DR frontier. We made this agreement in good faith, and have kept our side of this deal as well. We have committed the largest force of the TNA to this war - and bled the most, as well; we even accepted the weaker position, attacking first to draw DR's forces away (and thus lose nearly everything) from the presumed coup de tête that BoH was supposed to land this past turn. No nation can fault our involvement in this alliance, nor the part we played in it.
In violating the Right of Passage, BoH has proven that their units are not to be trusted near to civilized cities. In violating the Military Alliance, BoH has proven that their commanders are not to be trusted to fight honestly or honorably. In violating our Technological Alliance, BoH has proven that their civilian leaders are not to be trusted to maintain control over their policies, nor to maintain a peaceful relationship with their neighbors.
We conclude this warning to the world, with a warning to the BoH and to any allies they may have.
Euphorica will not take this betrayal lying down. Although we prefer the ways of peace when dealing with our friends, we have no fear of the ways of war when dealing with our enemies. We ask the nations of EOD to support us in defending our justly owned lands from the Betrayers of Hope, and remind any that might think of allying with them, that in breaking this strongest of alliances, BoH certainly may not be trusted by any.
We believe that the nations of the Eve of Destruction are generally good at heart, and that this betrayal will resound in the halls of the EoD - but that, even left to stand alone, Euphorica will not go quietly. Our music will yet again return to the halls of Metallica, and our battle hymns shall resound from one end of this continent, to the other, as our allies come to join in the battle against tyranny and cowardice.
Peace be with our friends. Death, to our enemies.
Tech Alliance Treaty - dated 1. March 2005
1. Blood Oath Horde ("BOH") and Euphorica shall engage in a Cooperative Venture to mutually advance in technical prowess in a manner that aids both sides, in choosing technical ventures and in the trading of such concepts.
2. To aid in this venture, BOH and Euphorica shall, each time a technical research is completed, inform each other of the completion of said technical research.
3. Furthermore, BOH and Euphorical shall, each time a new technical research is commenced, inform the other of the new technical research.
4. BOH and Euphorica shall, upon completion of a technical research, first offer such research to eath other prior to offering that research to any other team. A reasonable trade must be offered in good faith, if such a trade is possible.
4a. If such a trade is not possible with extant techs, the researching nation should consider the possibility of trading for a future tech credit, particularly a tech within five turns of completion.
5. Any tech accepted in a trade under this deal from the other team shall not be offered in trade to a third party, without sharing 50% of the benefits of such trade with the other team, unless approved beforehand. 50% is defined as 50% of the point value (c3c editor base value) of such tech in present or future techs, or a gold or luxury equivalent agreed to by both teams. This may be taken as partial credit for an otherwise unfair trade (for example, trading bronze working away to another team once traded for under this agreement, a 4 point tech, means that if later a trade of, say, Construction for CoL is offered - the team with the 2 point 'credit' offering CoL - it should be considered fair, rather than unfair, given this additional credit (which is then cancelled).
5a. Any tech self-researched may be traded with others with no penalty, providing (2) and (4) have been fulfilled.
6. If one party is asked by the other to engage on a less 'credit worthy' line of research - such as researching polytheism and HBR instead of Currency and Construction - that fact should be taken into account in trades, or the other party should be given the option of researching half of the 'harder' techs. If it is ultimately less useful for both parties to switch off in this way (for example if research times don't convieniently line up) then 'straight up' trades should be considered, or a fair GPT deal for the duration of the 'harder' vs. 'easier' techs situation should be arranged. In no case shall this deal be used to force one team into researching less valuable techs and ultimately be unable to keep up with the other team because of this.
6a. If such a situation occurs as in (6), both parties should be restricted from trading the techs they research, unless they share 100% of the benefits of those trades with each other, assuming a fair deal has been made to evenly divide research costs; a fair deal being described either as one determined fair by both sides, or at minimum a deal that involves a transfer of gold equivalent to the beaker difference in research, in a 1 for 1 exchange ratio (ie 1gp = 1 beaker). If no deal has been made of that nature, but techs gained in this way are traded 1 for 1 (ie a harder tech traded straight up for an easier tech) between BOH and Euphorica, then both teams should share 50% of the benefits of their trades of their respective harder and easire techs.
6b. BOH and Euphorica are in no way forbidden from researching the same techs by this agreement, and if one team feels the other is unfairly profiting from researching a specific tech first, the other may freely research said tech as well. However, this is a poor situation for both sides, and should be avoided at any reasonable cost.
6c. If Philosophy is researched first by either team, then the resulting free tech should be given to the other team for free, assuming they have made a reasonable trade for philosophy, and have been otherwise making reasonable trades throughout the course of this deal. If a reasonable deal for philosophy is not possible at that time, nor in a reasonable amount of time thereafter, the team researching philosophy is free to keep the bonus tech with no penalty.
6d. Scientific Method.
6d(i). If one team researches Scientific Method, and on the same turn uses a prebuild to (on the next turn) build Darwin's Voyage, or any turn prior to the first turn that the other team might concievably have build Darwin, then the other team should be given one of these technologies for free, and the other one for a cost not to exceed the cost that Scientific Method was traded for (or will be traded for) (and this must be a reasonable cost for Sci. Method.)
6d(ii). If on the other hand, Scientific Method is built later than described in 6d(i), then both technologies should be traded at a reduced cost, but not for free; the builder may set the cost for both technologies, at a reasonable level.
6d (iii). Both parties should discuss the building of Sci. Method ahead of time, so that one party does not waste shields on it, and consider making both techs traded for a reasonable cost (to offset the cost of building the wonder).
7. Expiration. This deal expires upon one of the following conditions.
7a. If three consecutive techs are researched by one team and not traded for within ten techs of researching the third tech, by the other team.
7b. Upon 1 tech notice by one team; the next tech researched by each side should be traded under this agreement, but any following techs do not fall under this agreement.
7c. Upon the declaration of war by one party on the other party. Such should be considered a breach of this agreement, and not a simple expiration.
7d. Upon the completion of each era, this document should be reviewed and re-certified by both sides, to indicate that both sides believe they benefit by this arrangement. One side refusing to recertify it at the beginning of a new era indicates the expiration of this agreement.
7e. If one side determines that the other side has not fairly dealt with them, by showing proof to a neutral third party (such as a moderator or non-player in this game) that the other side is in substantial breach of one of the major clauses in this contract - (4) through (6).
--
Amendment 1: proposed by BOH
Article 5a. Any tech self-researched may be traded with others with no
penalty, providing (2) and (4) have been fulfilled and the tech is not
resource revealing or one of military tradition, nationalism and synthetic
fibers. Any resource revealing tech and also military tradition, nationalism
and synthetic fibers which may be self-researched or obtained otherwise will
not be traded with other civs without the acceptance of the other party.
Acceptance is automatic if the other party is not at war and tech is not
iron working, wheel or military tradition.
--
Modifications: Ultimately this treaty was (although never formally) modified to remove the for-value exchange (4/12/05), and simply exchange technologies for our mutual benefit, agreeing to discuss any trades before we make them.
Conversations (with required edits for security purposes only) can be made available to any who wish verification of our veracity.
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
The termination e-mail is not adeuate. The treaty was not reviewed by both sides prior to termination.
Furthermore, the new era had begun two turns before that. And read 7(c) - war never is a valid way of ending the agreement.
Krill, they did not ROP-rape us, i'll give them that - but there was the ROP agreement itself that was broken by war, not to mention the luxury deals and military alliance, etc. |
The termination e-mail was more than adequate. Under section 7d the treaty automatically terminates without agreed renewal at era change. The e-mail was a courtesy...something we now know to be an unknow quality among the bards.
Furthermore, War did not end the treaty. It was ended before war was declared. Technically, as you point out, it was ended 2 turns before war was declared.
The RoP agreement was terminated by war being declared, but as NO troops were in your terrirtory, no violation of this agreement occured.
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skrobism
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I know that Babylon has requested this information many times.
Please do post or send this evidence of betrayal.
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Moonbars
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Glasgow
Aug 2002
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
Here many times over you will see the Bards quite loudly declaring there can be no reprieve for the Desolation Row, that the war against them will continue for as long as it takes to completely destroy them!!
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Well, to be fair that's really just McMeadows.
quote:
Thing is see that there plan was for the BOH to do this work for them, whilst they sat at home building granaries instead of troops to send to there so called allies aid!!
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No, that's what Babylon has been doing. Euphorica has committed and lost a huge quantity of troops. Was there a large amount of buildings in Metallica, or did u capture a barracks town?
quote:
...[Y]ou will see a clear pattern of Euphorican tough talk. Just a pity they dont build the troops required to back up such fine boasts!! |
They built a large army, in fact they built two, it's just that they failed because our army was better, and becuase the dice favoured us. Please dont try and suggest they havn't committed to the war against us, again that's BABYLON you are thinking of. Euphorica has held a consistent, if unhappy, relationship with DR since their first archer rush.
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ChrisiusMaximus
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Staffordshire England
Jul 2002
time: 05:37
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The document that Lord Snoopy of the Bards seeks to blacken the good name of the Horde with here in this proclamation is no longer valid, and was replaced by a renewed agreement.
The original agreement found in the opening post was originally put into force on the 25th day of february in the year of our lord 2005 !!
The Horde Honoured this treaty fully until such time as I myself renegotiated the agreement with Lord Snoopy.
This new agreement removed the old one and in its place a much simpler and relaxed document was drafted and sent to me by Lord Snoopy.
I will paste the entire agreement here and a pic of the original diplomatic papers i received showing clearly the date of this new agreement.
Original doc from Lord Snoop dated 4/4/05
We approve.
Details:
1. All techs researched, popped, or traded for must be sent immediately
(the turn they are received), accepted, to the other team.
2. Any tech that is traded for gold, the gold must be shared 50-50 with
the other team
3. Any tech traded for any other benefit, the benefit must be shared as
equally as possible.
4. There are no limitations to tech trades, however the teams may
discuss techs they think shouldn't be traded or should be limited.
5. Both teams shall meet at least every 10 turns to discuss tech
progress and where they will be going from there. During this meeting,
minimum tech standards can be set that should be adhered to during the
next 10 turns as a condition for continuing the deal (ie minimum science
levels).
6. Either team may back out of this with 10 turns notice. At the end
of these ten turns, all techs must be equalized (all techs must be owned
by both teams) prior to ending the deal. Also, the deal may be
cancelled at the end of any era by either team as long as the techs from
the previous era are equalized.
Sound good?
yes lord Snoopy it did sound good especially the last sentence of item 6, where you stated this agreement could be terminated at any era change by any party, as long as the techs were equalized.
lord Snoopy i think you will have to agree that all techs were equalized 
So in summary your calling us to account here in this way is all just wind, and you would do well to look to your archives more closely before bandying about silly accusations.
 Attachment: gotcha.jpg
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15-07-2005 23:25
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