18-08-2005 16:06									#121
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gee, big chip on your shoulder you have there

	18-08-2005 16:23									#122
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I don't think I have, I completley accept crticism against the UK when it is on the basis of something we are doing or have done in the recent past. Or if the criticism is about our society when the people doing the criticism can do so form a position of being able to explain why their society is better.

I am probably annoyed about the bus loads of extemists in my country saying that it is awful and decadent and how we deserve wahts comming to us yet know full well thay would be locked up for saying so in their countries of origin.

Non of this rant means i don't think the people responsible for the shambles that resulted in the Brazillians death should not be held to account.

How many countries in the world can say that theyhold a proper enquiry, which is certainly been done here at the moment.

	18-08-2005 16:44									#123
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger 4.Anyone who hate the US. 5. Countries who think they are culturaly superior yet resent the domination of english.

Ah, that would be France. Don't worry, we hate you in a very different fashion than the US. The cultural domination of English is due to the US, not to your island. We hate the US for plenty of reasons, but we hate you for having burned Joan of Arc

	18-08-2005 16:54									#124
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er no its due to their island

	18-08-2005 16:56									#125
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I'm glad my rather non subtle dig at the french has been taken in the manner intended.

Being british wouldn't be the same withouth the French

We started the cultural dominaton of english when your little corsican maestro was sent to the south atlantic

	18-08-2005 16:57									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse er no its due to their island

I see the colonials continue to bark in order to protect their masters...

	18-08-2005 17:02									#127
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger We started the cultural dominaton of english when your little corsican maestro was sent to the south atlantic

Nope. While Britain has produced some culture during the 19th century (and much less so than Germany or France), the thing that made English into the international language, and English-speaking culture the "default" one in the world, is the domination of the US on the west and its huge pop-culture machine.

If it wasn't for the US, the only hints of English-speaking culture we foreigners would get are Shakespeare, Edgar Poe, the Beatles and Harry Potter. And nobody but scholars would read the books in English anyway

	18-08-2005 17:19									#128
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Poncing around in cafe's talking about the meaning of life does not neccesarily make you cultural.

	18-08-2005 17:21									#129
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believe what you like Spiffor but French is certainly dead in the water and has been declining since Trafalgar

The only serious competitor English has had since Boney surrendered is German.

	18-08-2005 17:23									#130
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Spiff's right. You Brits and Aussies wouldn't be **** without us...

	18-08-2005 17:26									#131
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you never even learned to spell it properly

	18-08-2005 17:31									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse you never even learned to spell it properly

Eye.......Tea. It!

	18-08-2005 17:45									#133
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There is no doubt North America has propelled English forward since WWII to its current global dominance

But the British empire, when one third of the world was British, Britain controlled global trade and the sea lanes, and London was the financial capital of the world, was when English was established as the first truly globally dominant language - it was the language of exchange.

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 18-08-2005 at 17:55

	18-08-2005 17:52									#134
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But properly educated people were in paris speaking in french, dominating the world is just vulgar

	18-08-2005 19:58									#135
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If only Joan of Arc hadn't resisted, then the whole world would be speaking French.

Still, it's probably for the best. Gendered nouns

	19-08-2005 15:09									#136
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quote: Originally posted by kittenOFchaos The "facts" in the immediate aftermath were such that only morons would have condemned the shooting. Had he vaulted the barrier, had he run, had he being in a heavy coat that could give doubt to what he had underneath...he had to be shot.

Actually only a moron would have concluded he had to be shot purely for those reasons...

This whole sorry episode has shown quite clearly how using lethal force against a 'terrorist suspect' (read: innocent man) was frighteningly easily accepted by the gullible right wing conservatives on this site...

No wonder Bush brainwashed you into invading Iraq on the pretext of WMD...

C'mon people, anyone with at least half a brain should have been suspicious of the events surrounding this tragedy! You could tell something was wrong - some of us even pointed out the catalogue of inconsistencies using the information we were given at the time and questioned them on this site, but instead the gullible types on this forum sucked it all up like a dyson on acid...

The thing that really scares me the most is that the staggering incompetence of the police and its top brass far outsurpassed even my worst dreams!

You guys must feel really depressed being wrong all the time, I think you right wing people seriously have to ask yourselves a question - are you smarter than Bush or Quayle...?

	19-08-2005 15:34									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Nope. While Britain has produced some culture during the 19th century (and much less so than Germany or France), the thing that made English into the international language, and English-speaking culture the "default" one in the world, is the domination of the US on the west and its huge pop-culture machine.

Someone needs to read up on the history of English Literature in the 19th Century.

Not to mention the influence of Turner and Constable on French painting, and the influence of the Arts and Crafts movement and British Socialism and trade unionism.

What made English into an international language were trade and missionaries- the missionaries' tools being 'The Book of Common Prayer' and the 'Authorized King James Version' of the Bible.

	19-08-2005 17:23									#138
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If there was a 20% chance this man was a terrorist, he ought to have been shot, as he would have killed more than 5 had he been a terrorist.

Utilitarianism.

	19-08-2005 17:49									#139
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quote: Originally posted by kittenOFchaos The "facts" in the immediate aftermath were such that only morons would have condemned the shooting. Had he vaulted the barrier, had he run, had he being in a heavy coat that could give doubt to what he had underneath...he had to be shot.

Next time you'll try to hide your beer-stomach under a heavy coat and start running away in shame when a little kid says "look, mom, that uncle has SUCH a big stomach!" I'll shoot you.

I think you'll be satisfied.
At least one more terrorist dead.

	19-08-2005 18:30									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue If there was a 20% chance this man was a terrorist, he ought to have been shot, as he would have killed more than 5 had he been a terrorist. Utilitarianism.

No stupidism.

It is quite clear the man they shot had no connection with terrorrism not even a little bit. having said that in the atmosphere following the bombings i can just about see why the police suspected him, they were wrong to do so but you can see why( again the reason the reason to suspect him was wrong but the armed police in the station have to beleive what they are told). However shooting him when they had chance to apprehebd him was wrong.

	19-08-2005 21:06									#141
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger No stupidism.

From Nimrod Avenue?

	20-08-2005 09:26									#142
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If the information the police released originally was true, then under the existing circumstances they were fully justified in shooting the fleeing man. If it wasn't true, they weren't.

I don't think anyone on this site would accuse me of being soft on the police. If the police had been telling the truth and I had been in their situation, I would have no problems shooting the fleeing man and trying to kill him. Since it appears they were lying through their teeth, I think they should be strung up by their balls.

edit: spell and layout fix

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 20-08-2005 at 09:31

	20-08-2005 09:29									#143
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If the information the police released originally was true, then under the existing circumstances they were fully justified in shooting the fleeing man. If it wasn't true, they weren't. I don't think anyone on this site would accurese me of being soft on the police. If the police had been telling the truth and I had been in their situation, I would have no problems shooting the fleeing man and trying to kill him. Since it appears they were lying through their teeth, I think they should be strung up by their balls.

	20-08-2005 09:39									#144
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Let me be more specific. I think the police are dangerous and frequently abuse their authority, are corrupt, and don't really care enough to get the right criminals in far too many cases (though not in the majority). On top of that, even good cops are far too willing to overlook bad or corrupt police behavior. That said, I'm glad they exist because they protect us from those who are much worse than they are. I'm not one of those people who thinks cops are better than everyone else and thinks they should be accorded special respect because they are out there putting their lives between us and criminals.

But if I saw a guy come out of a suspected bomb-making site, in a heavy coat, on a hot day, who fled into a subway car when I identified myself as an armed police officer, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, not even into a crowd. The possibility I kill on or two innocent bystanders while trying to stop an immediate threat of murder to a larger group of those same innocent bystanders wouldn't make me hesitate. If I hesitated and he exploded, all those people I didn't save would be on my head.

Asher and I rarely agree on anything. He was totally correct in this thread.

	20-08-2005 12:14									#145
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I heard recently most of the story offered by the authorities is bogus, he was supposedly running to catch a train and wasn't wearing a heavy coat or doing anything out of the ordinary. He was killed because of how he looked...I doubt this would have happened had he been a white Scandinavian dude. Imagine being tackled by cops and shot in the head 5 times at point blank range because you were late for a train.

	20-08-2005 12:32									#146
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has this news only just reached the USA?

I swear your media is self censoring.

	20-08-2005 13:17									#147
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Our media resources are tied up in Aruba

	21-08-2005 06:56									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I swear your media is self censoring.

You act like this is some kind of revalation. Our media is worse than th Soviets' was.

	21-08-2005 07:01									#149
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its not for me - but you do often find that US posters argue stuff because they have no idea what the media outside the US has revealed

A friend of mine was recently in the Green Zone in quite a senior position. I asked him what it was like. He said it was nice and peaceful but they had no idea what was going on outside.

	21-08-2005 07:09									#150
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You can find out stuff going on in the world in our papers, but you have to read page 34 at the bottom under an ad, and it's usually only a paragraph.

The funny thing is so many conservative posters here claim that if something really was true, the media would cover it, but then dismiss foreign media as well as alternative media here in the U.S.

FOX is openly right-wing propaganda, but most mean stream sources are too afraid too rock the boat. If they piss off the powers that be, they lose their precious access to politicians, plus it can cost them advertising dollars. They self-censor because they are chicken-shits.