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Dr Strangelove
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Remember that Europe at the turn of the century was still a very patriachal, autocratic society. If you weren't an upper class or upper middle class male you didn't count for anything and anybody from the social strata above you could take a dump on you with impunity. If you were a lower class male the only things going for you were: 1) you weren't a woman and 2) your national pride. Though you didn't really have much in the way of status, at least your nation might, and your ego could sustain at least a little boost from the fortunes of your nation. OTOH when you were dumped upon the culture didn't really allow many ways to deal with the frustration and humilation. About the only thing a common man could do was either beat the wife or blame someone else. Jews were a nice safe scapegoat because they were so "foreign". To lash out at a Jew would not be the same as lashing out at the nation, your sort of extended family. Further more when you lashed out at a Jew you could expect a sort of protection from your other extended family, your fellow Christians.
Did Hitler really make an effort to find the Holy Grail? That would be surprising considering his affection for German paganism.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Remember that Europe at the turn of the century was still a very patriachal, autocratic society. If you weren't an upper class or upper middle class male you didn't count for anything and anybody from the social strata above you could take a dump on you with impunity. If you were a lower class male the only things going for you were: 1) you weren't a woman and 2) your national pride. Though you didn't really have much in the way of status, at least your nation might, and your ego could sustain at least a little boost from the fortunes of your nation. OTOH when you were dumped upon the culture didn't really allow many ways to deal with the frustration and humilation. About the only thing a common man could do was either beat the wife or blame someone else. Jews were a nice safe scapegoat because they were so "foreign". To lash out at a Jew would not be the same as lashing out at the nation, your sort of extended family. Further more when you lashed out at a Jew you could expect a sort of protection from your other extended family, your fellow Christians. |
Not much has changed, has it? There is always an "outgroup"- today, in the west, it just happens to be dumb white guys of the laboring class- which would include anyone who has to work for a paycheck.
quote:
Did Hitler really make an effort to find the Holy Grail? That would be surprising considering his affection for German paganism. |
Well, a lot of what has been referred to here was begun by Germans long before Hitler rose to power. Germans had an acute interest in archeology in the 1800's. And remember, it was a German businessman who financed the hunt for Troy, and discovered many a treasure trove in the process.
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/informa...n_heinrich.html
One must remember that, with the exceptions of Goering and Speer, Hitler and his coterie were, to a man, an uneducated group of laboring class individuals- they did not come from the monied or the educated classes in Germany or Austria.
Speer's book is another excellent example of Hitler's pre-occupation with cultish influences. Speers models for the Berlin that never quite was are interesting as well.
Also, as far as the German psyche and mythology goes, Wagner and Nietzsche were there long before Hitler came along.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
why were they wearing uniforms like always? Acting like they're in the army or something, every day, now and forever? Was it normal in those days in there to wear military uniforms? |
Uniforms are sexy. 
Part of it was tactical. If ten guys all dressed exactly the same way, ran into your union hall and began shooting and beating the crap out of people, it wouldn't be terribly easy to identify them in a line up. Plus, the original of the Nazis were in the Freikorps, which were ex-soldiers disgruntled with the immediate post-war situation in Germany (like who wasn't?). It wasn't just the Nazis. In the U.S., Marcus Guarvey's black nationalist movement used uniforms, as did the Ku Klux Klan (though their's weren't military style). Uniforms help to instill an esprit d'corps, make everyone feel like they are part of something bigger than themselves, which was an integral aspect of fascism.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Not soley. Nearly every culture had developed a swastika, and they were nearly always good luck symbols. When I lived in Chicago, there was a two-flat on Kimbal Ave. that had a row of alternating left and right swastikas all along the top. Obviously, this house was well over 100 years old. The Nazis pretty well damned the symbol in the West, but in the East, it's still used rather frequently without being associated with the worst mass murderer in modern history. |
It was the Ancient symbol of the people who conquered India- the Aryans. The word "swastika" is Sanskrit- an Indo-European language (formerly called Indo-Aryan- which means "people of Ara")
"The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix."
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/sw...tikahistory.htm
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I thought that the Freikorps were an unofficial militia used by the Weimar government to surpress the communists. Their existence enabled the Weimar Republic to field enough men to fight off the street mobs while officially respecting the limit set by the Versailles treaty? |
it was, but Hitler's Brown shirts were not in the Freikorps or a part of it- they were a separate entity that came into being after the beer hall putsch and Hitler's time in jail. They show up as a force after the publication of Mein Kampf. The Friekorps was also used to push Poland back out of German territory and on a limited basis in the areas of Russia ceded to German by Lenin after the revolution. They were made up of former Wermact officers and such. Something to keep them occupied as a means of saving the core units of the German army. The Freikorps was the invention of the German General Staff, not Hitler.
It was the German General Staff that demanded the killing of the leadership of the Brownshirts as the price for Hitler to pay for their acquiescence in his taking on the role of Dictator. It is known as the "night of the long knives".
Freikoprs:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERfreikorps.htm
Night of the long knives:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwa...eline/roehm.htm
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Fancy you showing up in this thread.
Are you still in the upper 99% of intelligence? |
Fancy you being able to spell that much. Are you still in the lower quintile?
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DerSchwarzfalke
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The Freikorps provided a lot of the future storm troopers of the SA and SS, though. A good deal of future SS officers -- including Himmler himself -- had served in the Freikorps at some point.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
How many square feet is your mansion now? |
A mansion in the US is not 3500 square feet. Here, where I live, to be considered a mansion, it must be at least 12,000 to 15,000 square feet. So, when my new addition is done, though it will be more then 5,500 square feet, it will not be a mansion. Most "mansions" in the area near me run around 20,000 sq. ft.- here's a picture of my great grandfather's friends house:
http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/jjhh/
But, thanks for asking, the work is going along fine. The columns for the 40 foot long pergola will arrive next week, so I will be able to enjoy that part of it before summer ends. It will eventually be screened in with two french doors at one end for admittance and a Jacuzzi at the far end for play. I'll post a pic of it when it's done.
Nowadays, most people prefer to have several smaller houses in different locations rather then a giant one in a single location- it's good to be an American. Too bad all the late comers will never know what that's like.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke
The Freikorps provided a lot of the future storm troopers of the SA and SS, though. A good deal of future SS officers -- including Himmler himself -- had served in the Freikorps at some point. |
Did you read that from the link I provided? The point was was that the Freikorps predated Hitler and he had nothing to do with it- therefore it is wrong to connect them. The Freikorps was done before Hitler began his rise to power. Hence the term "brownshirt syndrome"- he gave a bunch of unemployed people purpose and made them feel special by giving them uniforms to wear. It's acknowledged psychological ploy. You did not find too many members of the General Staff in their ranks, nor those who aspired to it. There was always great animosity between the GGS and the SS.
There are a great number of people in the world who need to belong to some cohesive group for their identity. These groups almost always employ an "in-group" versus the "out-group" mentality to retain their members. The Christian Right uses their little fish logos and such as their membership badge. The Left uses colorful symbols as well- the homosexual rainbow, the rainbow as a symbol of diversity, etc. All dogma rests on just such a precept- the "in-group" versus the "out-group".
Funny thing is, is, yesterday's in-group is tomorrow's out-group..............
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
How much did it cost Daddy? |
Ahh yes, the little green eyed monster rears it's ugly little head. It has cost Daddy nothing. I have been of independent means for all of my adult life.
It's good to be an American.
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DerSchwarzfalke
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It is fairly common knowledge. I did not read your link.
No, Hitler had nothing to do with the creation of the Freikorps, they were a symptom of post-WWI Germany. Separating the Freikorps from the Nazi Party and SS, though, would be ignoring an important causal effect of later Nazi violence. Where did the SA and SS men become conditioned to violence? Where did they learn their military discipline? Where did they become conditioned to the idea that violence was politically expedient? The various Freikorps.
The Freikorps and later the SS tended to be made up of middle and lower class types, as opposed to the German military. A lot of the animosity between the Nazi Party and the German military, which was mutual and problematic throughout the Reich, arguably stemmed from this.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Various cultures used the cross and variants of it primarily as astrological symbols, but I believe the Hopi have the closest thing to the swastika. |
WRONG- Read the links above. The first known use of it was in India. 3,000 years ago.
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Epublius Rex
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I was off by one- I was still right- the majority of rapes in London are committed by non-Englishmen- minorities. Attack away feeble one, it means nothing- you were wrong then and you are wrong now.
Your whole problem is one of jealousy, you have nothing, you know nothing and you are a nothing. Thus, you hate everyone and everything that exists, as it all is better then you.
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Riesstiu IV
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I got a 1720 and I did it with a blindfold and two hands tied behind my back while being whipped by a task master.
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Epublius Rex
Oh so jealous. I could say I got it the old fashioned way- by inheritance. |
Jealous? Hardly. Contemptuous, more likely. You're dirt to me.
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And I never said that I never held a job, just that I have been retired for quite some time. |
Indeed. I found the actual quote. 2.5 years in the workforce, eh. Good career, that...
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Some of us are simply smarter then others- while you go along, dredging up your paycheck, other think and grow rich(er). |
Indeed. Those dumbass poor people to whom it didn't occur to be born into a position in which they'd inherit a large amount of money.
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It's good to be an American, ya know. |
Not really. I live in the US and see how a lot of Americans live. It's repugnant.
Sweetheart, I'm smarter than you'll ever be, and furthermore I'm contributing something with my intelligence instead of spending my time in masturbatory self-congratulation, desperately fending off my feelings of guilt with loud clamourings of contempt for the rest of humanity...
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11-08-2005 02:55
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