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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke
It is fairly common knowledge. I did not read your link.
No, Hitler had nothing to do with the creation of the Freikorps, they were a symptom of post-WWI Germany. Separating the Freikorps from the Nazi Party and SS, though, would be ignoring an important causal effect of later Nazi violence. Where did the SA and SS men become conditioned to violence? Where did they learn their military discipline? Where did they become conditioned to the idea that violence was politically expedient? The various Freikorps.
The Freikorps and later the SS tended to be made up of middle and lower class types, as opposed to the German military. A lot of the animosity between the Nazi Party and the German military, which was mutual and problematic throughout the Reich, arguably stemmed from this. |
Thanks for the real conversation.
Good question. I always wondered myself. It was particularly puzzling to me as when I studied WW1, I found a great many Jewish officers on the GGS. Also, Frederick the Great was the first European Monarch to grant Jews full citizenship. Prussia was also the first state to employ universal public school education- so why the 180 degree turn with Hitler?
So, I spent a winter studying it some ten or twelve years ago. In a book about the Death's head battalions (Soldiers of Destruction) I found some answers. In the beginning, the SS was restricted to guarding the camps. There Himmler and company found that most of them were not capable of the pure violence that was deemed necessary. In the beginning the camps were not death camps, more like the gulags of Russia where people were worked to death rather then shot or gassed. It still required a ruthlessness that the average SS man did not have. What eventually evolved over time was a split- the Waffen SS versus the regular SS. The Waffen SS were the soldiers incapable of beating people to death without severe mental repercussions and the regular SS were the thugs who could. Basically, the regular SS types where mostly former prison inmates. These guys were of low intelligence and made poor soldiers. The Waffen SS became an elite fighting force that even the GGS had to eventually give respect to.
The part about severe mental repercussions is not to be taken lightly. According to the book, many of the SS, once being put in the camps, had so many problems that Himmler and company were having problems retaining them- many requested transfers to the regular army and many more were placed on leave from near total breakdowns. It seems that killing "innocents" is not something just anyone can be conditioned to do. That was somewhat hinted at by Spielberg in his movie "Shindler's List". Depression and despondency set in in these men quite quickly.
A really good book, that used to be required reading at West Point, is "The Forgotten Soldier" by a Frenchman named Sajer. HIs mother was German and as such, he was conscripted into the German army, but eventually transfers into the Gross Deutchland Division- excellent tale of war on the Eastern Front.
In any case, I disagree that it was entirely the Freikorps or the army itself that conditioned these men, rather the evidence that I have read points to Himmler and company searching out this type of person on a selective basis for their brutality. The ones who were fit and not capable of camp duty were funneled into the Waffen SS.
A good book about the experience of one eventual GGS officer in the Freikorps (who fought in the battle for Berlin as well as the Eastern Front) is titled "Soldat"- the author was living in Iowa as a retired stock broker when he wrote his memoirs- I cannot say whether he is alive still or not. But it covers his time from the end of WW1 to the end of WW2. He was marched off to Russia follow the surrender and was released as one of the 5,000 survivors (out of 500,000) who came back. His assessments of the later SA and SS are interesting as well. Panzer Commander is also a good book that covers this time period as well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...409455?v=glance
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Epublius Rex
Thanks for the real conversation. |
This sort of conversation?
http://www.counterglow.com/forum/ne...y&postid=739629
quote:
Originally posted by Epublius Rex
You pathetic fools, you lost the argument when you denied the reality of the stats. Coming up with subsequent strawmen to further delude yourselves only points to a lack of education, not of actually having one. Even here in the US the left admits it- just that here they blame "racism" for the reason blacks like to kill each other.
Face it, whether in Europe or the US, Africans and muslims commit more crime then whites. And what's worse, they are the minority in both cases.
I really don't know why anyone should be surprised by it- it's not exactly news, after all. It's not as if they are behaving any differently in the West then they do anywhere else they live. They commit more crime vis-a-vis whites in Africa as well- what I mean is, Africa is the murder capital of the world- hell, they have even gone back to eating each other in the Congo, now that the Belgians have gone. Cape town has the highest murder rate in the world- gee, I wonder why?
Lets talk about Brazil and Haiti- land of black murder, that one. Who's fault is that?
It's okay, you can all go back to your SOMA and day dreams of a Marxist utopia now.
Oh, and Drekkus, I believe it was whitemen who thought up science, not to mention geology and, can you say, "Darwinianism"? You know, evolution.
So hey Drekkus, explain to us all why Capetown is such a shithole now that blacks are running it- I mean, it used to be peaceful. And tell us about Haiti- and East LA, and now London. |
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Riesstiu IV
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Hush, now. I'll deal with you later. Epubicus is too good to let go to waste |
You can't silence me! I'm Riesstiu IV and an American. I live in a 550,000 square foot mansion. I own 17 sports cars. I could have my Philippino golf caddies beaten to a pulp with the snap of my fingers. But I chose not to because I’m a nice guy.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Jealous? Hardly. Contemptuous, more likely. You're dirt to me.
quote:
And I never said that I never held a job, just that I have been retired for quite some time. |
Indeed. I found the actual quote. 2.5 years in the workforce, eh. Good career, that...
quote:
Some of us are simply smarter then others- while you go along, dredging up your paycheck, other think and grow rich(er). |
Indeed. Those dumbass poor people to whom it didn't occur to be born into a position in which they'd inherit a large amount of money.
quote:
It's good to be an American, ya know. |
Not really. I live in the US and see how a lot of Americans live. It's repugnant.
Sweetheart, I'm smarter than you'll ever be, and furthermore I'm contributing something with my intelligence instead of spending my time in masturbatory self-congratulation, desperately fending off my feelings of guilt with loud clamourings of contempt for the rest of humanity... |
Your so jealous you squeak- too much fun playing with your kind. You never figure it out, from one generation to the next, you remain perpetually within the lower classes.
The real fun is about to begin. And you don't even know what it is- but one day, you'll find that just like your ancestors, you aided and abetted the whole process.
Here's a clue: whatever it is you do, there are one billion people in China or India who can do it cheaper, without ever once dreaming of asking for a "piece of the pie".
Had people like you learned to be happy with your place in this world, there would be no need for capital flight, outsourcing and offshoring. But, be that as it may the die has been cast. Neither political party in America or any in Europe have any wish to stop that which is already in motion.
It's good to be an American.
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Epublius Rex
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Yawn- no, moron, the kind I'm having with him, you know, discussing historical fact, something you're not capable of.
You guys lost, you made claims with no facts to back them up- that's how it works, you know. You make an argument based upon verifiable facts. Just like in a courtroom. I used government stats to prove you wrong- you're still smarting at how easy it was to make fools out of you. Hell, I used his own London times to do it. It wasn't hard, it was in fact so easy I got bored. There was no challenge. I expected a couple of hate mongers like yourselves to at least offer some token resistance, but, silly nonsense like " I don't believe statistics"......
Yawn.
But you cannot seem to do that- argue with verifiable facts, you make assertions, and when your assertions are shot through with opposing facts and real data, then you run and start calling people names- which is just like a child on a playground and just exactly what you are doing now. You are not showing any intelligence, you are showing your lack of knowledge about the subject as well as your immaturity. You are starting a fight which you cannot win except by loud yelling and emotional assertions.
You could not pass an entry level debate class, let alone defend a client in a courtroom.
Jealousy.........................
It'll eat you alive, you know- oh yeah, it already has!
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
'fer Chists sakes, listen to yourself. The bluest blooded Etonian would be ashamed to sound half as pompous as you. |
Does your mommy know you're up this late?
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Epublius Rex Your so jealous you squeak |
You're, son. You're. It's okay. Most of the "nobility" throughout history has never had to learn to read and write, so why should you?
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- too much fun playing with your kind. You never figure it out, from one generation to the next, you remain perpetually within the lower classes. |
Funny. I thought my parents were solidly middle-class, and given my education and my chosen profession, I thought that I'd likely be too. Though if I chose to enter a career for purely monetary considerations it wouldn't be difficult to become decidedly upper-class...
quote:
The real fun is about to begin. And you don't even know what it is- but one day, you'll find that just like your ancestors, you aided and abetted the whole process.
Here's a clue: whatever it is you do, there are one billion people in China or India who can do it cheaper, without ever once dreaming of asking for a "piece of the pie". |
There are one billion people in China and India who have a PhD in physics? Wow. Talk about overkill. Oh well, if that's the case I suppose I could always quit and play poker professionally. Either way, no skin off my back.
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Had people like you learned to be happy with your place in this world, there would be no need for capital flight, outsourcing and offshoring. But, be that as it may the die has been cast. Neither political party in America or any in Europe have any wish to stop that which is already in motion. |
Oh, son. You're already in the dustbin of history. The welfare state is here to stay. All the wishing in the world for the good old days won't bring laissez-faire capitalism back. Once we work our way through the transition period of globalisation you're sure gonna feel stupid, boy...
quote:
It's good to be an American. |
I can't lie; I'm certainly glad you're not a Canadian.
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Epublius Rex
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I guess the idle rich don't have anything better to do with their time than browse the internet and get their asses handed to them time and time again by the proles... |
See- your not even smart enough to know when you've lost. Here's a hint, you lose the minute you diverge from the subject- which is all you and your buddy have done all night. You also lose when you fall to come with facts to buttress your argument- which you cannot seem to do.
The fun part in all this is cross posting your posts to other forums, people get quite a chuckle out of your playground behavior and the thought that you represent the left ( What Stalin is reputed to have referred to as the "useful idiots) is the most delicious part of it. You argue on pure faith, without any real knowledge at all. And the beauty of it all, is that you don't even realize how poor your conversation really is. Its like the guy who laughs at the jokes being made about him.
So, now that I have assessed your actual value and found it to be wanting, I will simply ignore you and the other child until such time as you can actually carry on a conversation and stay on the subject- as well as provide something worth chewing on- you know, factual matter of some kind.
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Epublius Rex
See- your not even smart enough to know when you've lost |
Arggghhh.
Do you have a ****ing learning disability?
quote:
. Here's a hint, you lose the minute you diverge from the subject- which is all you and your buddy have done all night. You also lose when you fall to come with facts to buttress your argument- which you cannot seem to do. |
Here's the real hint: I don't argue seriously with idiots. You can keep sputtering all you want, but when it comes right down to it I don't respect you enough to debate with you. It would be a waste of time for a number of reasons: your hypotheses are so ridiculous that reasonable people dismiss them out of hand anyway, the discussion is not likely to bring up any interesting points, and even were I to carefully disassemble your worldview and break each piece of it in turn you'd probably be too dumb to recognise it...
quote:
The fun part in all this is cross posting your posts to other forums, people get quite a chuckle out of your playground behavior and the thought that you represent the left ( What Stalin is reputed to have referred to as the "useful idiots) is the most delicious part of it. You argue on pure faith, without any real knowledge at all. And the beauty of it all, is that you don't even realize how poor your conversation really is. Its like the guy who laughs at the jokes being made about him. |
Oh. Lord. The Irony. It Burns.
quote:
So, now that I have assessed your actual value and found it to be wanting, I will simply ignore you and the other child until such time as you can actually carry on a conversation and stay on the subject- as well as provide something worth chewing on- you know, factual matter of some kind. |
Oh, precious. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Don't go away. I was just starting to have fun with you...
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11-08-2005 10:03
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