17-08-2005 16:41									#61
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Bollocks. Just the regular "blame the victim" excuse. MS advertises Windows as something you don't need experience and skill to use - not "use at your own risk because we don't give a rat's arse about viruses and spyware."

As long as the user has the ability to run programs, he has the ability to run viruses and spyware.

What don't you get?

You can only blame MS for the world's failings every so often. Once in a while you need to realize that people are stupid, and do stupid things.

	17-08-2005 16:44									#62
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by aneeshm And considering that it is UNIX/Linux servers that are used in a large number of mission-critical services , why doesn't anybody target them ? Taking down a large number of services critical to the internet is going to get you many more "leet points" that if you target individual windows users - yet there are practically no viruses for Linux/UNIX . Why is that ?

UNIX servers were heavily targeted back when they dominated.

Linux servers generally aren't targetted because Linux is still low-profile compared to Windows -- a worm taking down Linux servers wouldn't make front-page featured-article cnn.com like the Zotob (which is a lame worm that's basically dead already) did. They also generally have more capable administrators because of the elite-geek factor of Linux, and the #1 reason is the lack of standardization on Linux installs.

It's a double-edged sword, you know -- the lack of Linux standardization is why it'll never replace Windows on the desktop, and it's also why it's harder to target...

	17-08-2005 16:47									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger A new worm is on the loose over the Net as I write...

That's infecting unpatched Windows 2000 computers only, Windows XP isn't affected, and Windows 2000 users with autoupdates on aren't affected either.

quote: It is true that a GUI makes working with simple tasks simpler, and hard tasks more difficult. For example, how do you make a listing of all the files and directories on your computer under Windows? How many clicks will that take?

Another contrived example -- how do you draw raster graphics with the CLI? How many keystrokes would that take?

How many keystrokes does it take to select a bunch of pictures you want to print? In Windows I view by thumbnail then hold CTRL and click on the ones I want to print, then select "Print" in the task pane.

CLI and GUIs are both useful -- GUIs are absolutely more intuitive in every case, even if in some contrived examples (like yours) it takes longer. Linux relies too heavily on the CLI.

	17-08-2005 17:21									#64
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not me. I do network administration among other things

If you modify it a little bit it still fits my example, no?

But well, that Linux is better suited at some tasks than windows is out of question for me. I am glad for the cygwin project which enhances CLI functionality in Windows quite a bit (especially those handy, powerful and easy to write shell scripts).

	17-08-2005 17:26									#65
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Most people use Windows because it's the de facto standard, and learning Linux isn't worth the effort.

It also have the major advantage of not being MacOS.

	17-08-2005 21:32									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Dis I really don't want to get in this argument. Because Mac people always say they can use a console for games (which I find to be an invalid arguement since civ3 isn't on consoles). but out of curiousity, what is the cheapest mac you can get?

Mac Mini, starting at 499$



This thing needs to come with Bluetooth/Airport standard, and it would be an near-perfect machine for most household computer users who just want to surf the web, email, IM, maybe watch some videos, etc.

	17-08-2005 21:36									#67
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

And still you can get a PC that can do more for less money.

In any other industry, Apple would die with such a bad value proposition.

	17-08-2005 21:41									#68
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Yes, you can get a Dell high rise, true. OMFG the Mini was pwnz0r3d.



I guess it's a matter of what you value. For me, I wanted a computer that could perform admirably doing everything I wanted it to do, while also not being a monstrous addition to my room; hence, the iMac.

For people who want a basic/intermediate computer, maybe to put in a den or kitchen or whatever, the Mini is a much better choice, taking up far less space, with much more appeal.

	17-08-2005 21:47									#69
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quote: Why Do People Still Use Windows?

Because it's a b*tch trying to get sunlight into buildings without them

	17-08-2005 21:51									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni In any other industry, Apple would die with such a bad value proposition.

Not so... look at the shoe market. Some people pay tons of money for Shoes with the Nike logo on them, even though they are NOT really worth the difference in price.

They have been sucked into buying a brand, even though logic doesn't support their decision... Just like people who pay more for less when they get a Mac

	17-08-2005 22:00									#71
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Yep. Apple is a brand name. And as many other brands, it don't say ****.

	17-08-2005 22:17									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni And still you can get a PC that can do more for less money.

Which is cobbled together from god knows what and is vulnerable to spyware and viruses. I bet that the time people spend on removing viruses and spybots from their PCs and the time they spend installing software to do so, and the time they lose due to malware and compatbility problems is worth a lot more than the couple of hundred dollars in price difference between an Apple computer and a PC.

quote: In any other industry, Apple would die with such a bad value proposition.

The reason they survive is the software, and the integration with the hardware. Compatibility problems with software are comparatively rare on the Macintosh because everyone pretty much knows what they have to deal with, and if there is a problem the same fix will usually work for everyone.

	17-08-2005 22:21									#73
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If there's one thing that can be said for you Agathon, you're a troll with stamina

	17-08-2005 22:40									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Verto For people who want a basic/intermediate computer, maybe to put in a den or kitchen or whatever, the Mini is a much better choice, taking up far less space, with much more appeal.

I'd still go for a barebone PC. Similar price range, similar size, MUCH better components, PC functionality:

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Which is cobbled together from god knows what and is vulnerable to spyware and viruses. I bet that the time people spend on removing viruses and spybots from their PCs and the time they spend installing software to do so, and the time they lose due to malware and compatbility problems is worth a lot more than the couple of hundred dollars in price difference between an Apple computer and a PC.

Then again, what are you able to do on a Mac? After surfing and text-processing, gaming is the #3 activity on the computer. Mac and games...

quote: The reason they survive is the software, and the integration with the hardware.

The reason it survives is because people think it looks cool.

quote: Compatibility problems with software are comparatively rare on the Macintosh

	17-08-2005 22:41									#75
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I haven't crashed a Windows PC in years. Just a few months ago, I was being tested on a Max with OS X, just using Dreamweaver and Fireworks at the same time. I crashed it three times in an hour, and had to restart my test twice.

There is no good reason for any power use to use a Mac. I used to prefer them for graphics work, but not anymore. Damn things are as stable as Win98 boxes.

	17-08-2005 22:49									#76
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Yeah, I remember using a Mac a few years ago and it seemed to do nothing but crash constantly. And it was ugly...

	17-08-2005 22:51									#77
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Quod Erat Demonstrandum

	17-08-2005 23:05									#78
	Remove this text

I buy what works for me, and that happens to be Apple products.

I've used them for years — at home, in school and at work — and have rarely had problems with them, aside from an occasional software glitch (and even then, mostly at work). So, FWIW, I'd recommend Apple based on my experience.

I don't particularly care if you're a Windows fanatic or Apple fanatic. I'm simply passing on what works for me, and that's been Apple.

Gatekeeper

	17-08-2005 23:12									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Compatibility problems with software are comparatively rare on the Macintosh

No kidding... it's tough to have compatibility problems when the software doesn't run on Mac's in the first place.

I love when people bring up the how "compatibable" Macs are when so much software can't even run on them. Plus, there are so many problems when Macs have to communicate with Windows in a business enviornment. Half the stuff generated on Macs in our office and is then sent to clients in Windows enviornment won't look right... now that's real compatibility

	17-08-2005 23:14									#80
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If I can't run 13 programs at the same time without worrying my machine is goona crap out on me, I don't want it.

	17-08-2005 23:27									#81
	Re: Why Do People Still Use Windows? Put an end to popups!

Because win 98 works quite well for all my needs. I refuse to buy the latest thing.

	18-08-2005 00:38									#82
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

All the Macs I have used in my life crahed constantly, and they have a lot less games availible. Oh, and I must mention that they are underpowered for thier cost. I have a good firewall and have good antivirus software on my Compaq I'm on right now and havent had a virus or noticeable spyware infection since I got it.

	18-08-2005 00:59									#83
	Re: Re: Why Do People Still Use Windows? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Because win 98 works quite well for all my needs. I refuse to buy the latest thing.

I have Windows XP, but what is this about 'buy'?

	18-08-2005 02:14									#84
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I can't remember the last time my mac crashed.

	18-08-2005 02:19									#85
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Amnesia?

	18-08-2005 02:31									#86
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Why Do People Still Use Windows?

Because I cant afford to buy both Mac and PC However I do use it at Uni

	18-08-2005 22:12									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Agathon People still use Windows because they love spyware, viruses, poorly designed UIs and shitty graphics.

None of my boxes, nor those of my roommates (under my care) have spyware or virii; personally, I find a lot of the conventions in OS X to be irritating and troublesome (such as the home/end key problem, and the inability to have window focus change based on cursor position); graphics is a matter of debate.

	18-08-2005 22:13									#88
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quote: FWIW, I update Windows XP every time an update is released; use Firefox myself, and have tried to do what I can to get it set up so the other users did too; run Spybot/AdAware/Microsoft AntiSpyware or whatever it's called...and still there is junk stuck on here: everytime IE is opened, a huge toolbar w/ all kinds of useless ad links pops up.

Stop going to pr0n sites.



FWIW, I run those three programs too, coupled with McAfee AV... and the only junk that opens up when I click IE is IE 7 Beta 1.

	18-08-2005 22:14									#89
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I know, I don't get lumbered with any of that crap...

	18-08-2005 22:17									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Personally, this is how I like my UI: simple, snappy, with special effects that I can disable.

Thus, it currently stands as:

Fluxbox > WinXP > OS X ~ KDE > WinVista > Gnome.

Fluxbox is simple and snappy, extraordinarily customizeable. Alas, there's a paucity of special effects, but I don't mind. WinXP is far more customizeable than OS X, largely because I can disable most of the effects and drop it into Classic w/ XP Start Menu. OS X, I can tweak the colors... and that's about it. Vista, I can do the same, but the fact that Beta 1 requires me to have a fairly powerful graphics card for it to not be sluggish... KDE has the customization and special effects, but it's not as snappy as I'd like; and Gnome, well, Gnome just sucks. I can't stand spatial browsing.