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Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:14
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Why Do People Still Use Windows? Tired of ads?

(...besides "software availability").

Well, my Mac and I are entering Day Five together, and as my exposure to OS X, and Windows XP, continues, I feel that question growing on my mind.

Let me first say this disclaimer: my expertise and knowledge of OS X is no where near the level I have with Windows, as the last time I'd used an Apple was back in 5th grade. However, despite only having it for just under a week, and despite the many, many, many hours spent playing WoW instead of tinkering with the computer itself, I must say I can not imagine using Windows XP on a daily basis anymore.

Here was the setup involved with Day One:

Pull out BT Keyboard and Mouse, put in batteries.

Take out iMac; set on desk; plug in power cord.

Turn on iMac.

At this point, the computer went through the usual first-time user set up question, as well as the BT connection. It then instantly found 3 available wireless networks: MSHOME, linksys(I assume simply the router, absent any present wireless network) and Home, a network I created in a failed attempt to get my PC to work, see below). I selected the used one, MSHome; AirPort instantly connected, and I was able to download all the software updates for all the programs installed. I spent the first hour or so installing WoW and it's patches as well as iWorks, while my printer was ready to go once I'd plugged it in (incidentally, the printer USB cable is the only cable connected to my iMac, other than the power cord).

My first complaint came when I saw that I had 1 dead pixel in the lower-left quadrant, first spotted during the WoW opening cinematics. I have ignored it, and will deal with it shortly. My second complaint came when I tried to transfer songs over. I suspect that due to the conflicts with the .wmas I have as well as the copy protection which I believe ended up on a few albums, I ended up losing 25-40% of my songs when I transfered them over the wireless network. After several attempts over the course of a few days, I have managed to get ~ 2.3/2.6 GB over.

Part of the problem stemmed from the wierd things that iTunes was doing, creating copies of my songs and putting them into an iTunes folder. I could not find a way to simply search my entire hard drive for all song files that fit a specified parameter like WMP does, nor does it seem to automatically separate the songs by album, artist, etc for easy selection during listening.

My other source of irritation: the inability of Mac users to open a voice chat with PC AIM users. Other than that, though I have not missed anything on my PC, except for Office (although my computer did come with Office for Mac, 30 day trial which I prefer to Pages and AppleWorks.)

So anyway, lets go back to Day -1. In anticipation of getting my new iMac, I unplugged my old HP and set it aside so I could dismantle my computer desk, set up a new one and place my HP back on a temp. desk. I do this without a hitch, until I try to get my HP to connect to the internet. Plugged directly into the DSL modem as I thought I'd had it before, it didn't work. I tried plugging it into the router, and then the router into the modem, with no success. Finally, tinkering around with the Network settings for an hour or so, I finally get it to come back up.

So fast forward to Day 4. My dad comes into town from Virginia, with his brand-spanking new PC laptop. He sets his laptop up 5 feet from the router, and can't get it to connect. Now, I had intentionally set it up so the router was plugged into the DSL modem, making them separate from everything else; I'd figured his 802. card would simply pick it up like the AirPort had done. Nope. Connecting to the internet required tinkering for his laptop as well.

Same thing for my mom's laptop; I had to go in and eventually stumbled on how to change it to allow connecting to networks identified as access points or some such garbage, which a novice user would not have been able to do.

Connecting to internet with iMac: 5 seconds
Connecting to internet with PCs: ~ 15 minutes, with intermittant breaks taken in between out of frustration and boredom.

Of course, even after connecting to the internet with our PCs, there is the inevitable ad garbage that pops up, as my barely computer-literate mom uses a 50/50 mix of IE and Firefox, just clicking on whichever she sees first. I know all about the wonder that is Firefox, but c'mon: in the year 2005, surfing the web without getting bogged down by spyware/adware should not require a third party browser w/ even more third-party extensions. I don't give a **** for the arguments about how Windows is the dominant OS, and therefore targeted by more hackers, etc: with all the resources it has at its disposal, it is time Microsoft secured Windows so that novice, first time users can navigate the internet without being overwhelmed.

Startup/shutdown is also much faster; Widgets are a very cool feature..Spotlight I've only used a couple times, but I found its results to be accurate and quickly pulled up. Overall, my only criticism of OS X so far would be the hassle I had to go through WRT my .wma/.mp3 transfer/conversion and the dead pixel. It would be nice if they had an equivalent of My Pictures/My Videos etc more visible (yes I know it's there, and I use it, but they really should be more up front.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:15
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And my computer:



Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:18
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arty:

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:19 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Because it's:

1) Cheaper
2) Permits more freedom
3) Cheaper
4) More functional (more software)
5) Cheaper
6) Runs games (DirectX)
7) Is not tied to underpowered, overpriced hardware
8) The Finder is the worst program, ever
9) Single menu bar: Not only does it not make logical sense (disconnecting it from the widget it controls), it's a usability nightmare

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:22 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
I don't give a **** for the arguments about how Windows is the dominant OS, and therefore targeted by more hackers, etc: with all the resources it has at its disposal, it is time Microsoft secured Windows so that novice, first time users can navigate the internet without being overwhelmed.

Far and away the #1 problem is the novice users themselves, not Windows. The vast majority of spyware/adware/etc is installed by novice users -- like those lameass JPG images that are made to look like a Window saying -- "YOU HAVE WON $1000000000000000000!!!! CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE TOOL TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE"

Then "omg why do i have spyware???"

As long as you have stupid people and a large target you'll have viruses and spyware, etc.

It's an advantage of using a non-mainstream product, though -- security through obscurity.

FWIW, Windows XP SP2's IE has a popup blocker by default... Consider using the latest version.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:26
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@ Asher getting more desperate by the day.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:27
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People still use Windows because they love spyware, viruses, poorly designed UIs and shitty graphics.

Now do I have to post Asher's "I love OS X" thread again?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:28 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Who's desperate?

I've made these arguments for years, and they're still valid today.

The desperate person is the one who avoids all of the points and uses an "lol" smilie instead of discussing them...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:31 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
People still use Windows because they love spyware, viruses, poorly designed UIs and shitty graphics.

There is far more "wrong" about the MacOS X UI than there is with the Windows XP UI. Once you actually study interface design and understand it, you can make an argument...

As for spyware -- you're running Spyware all the time. World of Warcraft 1.6.1 and above scans a list of processes you're running every few seconds and reports it back to Blizzard.

That is, by definition, spyware. Congratulations.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:35
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I am considering buying an apple laptop

but that is because I don't want the laptop to play games, I don't want it to have lots of programs, I don't care (really) about it's performance, etc

I just care about looks/quality

Jon Miller
(Asher, get the to my laptop thread)

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

Far and away the #1 problem is the novice users themselves, not Windows. The vast majority of spyware/adware/etc is installed by novice users -- like those lameass JPG images that are made to look like a Window saying -- "YOU HAVE WON $1000000000000000000!!!! CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE TOOL TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE"

Then "omg why do i have spyware???"

As long as you have stupid people and a large target you'll have viruses and spyware, etc.

It's an advantage of using a non-mainstream product, though -- security through obscurity.

FWIW, Windows XP SP2's IE has a popup blocker by default... Consider using the latest version.


FWIW, I update Windows XP every time an update is released; use Firefox myself, and have tried to do what I can to get it set up so the other users did too; run Spybot/AdAware/Microsoft AntiSpyware or whatever it's called...and still there is junk stuck on here: everytime IE is opened, a huge toolbar w/ all kinds of useless ad links pops up.


quote:
1) Cheaper
2) Permits more freedom
3) Cheaper
4) More functional (more software)
5) Cheaper
6) Runs games (DirectX)
7) Is not tied to underpowered, overpriced hardware
8) The Finder is the worst program, ever
9) Single menu bar: Not only does it not make logical sense (disconnecting it from the widget it controls), it's a usability nightmare


Yes, price is probably the determining factor, which is unfortunate. People spend 3-400 bucks on shitty Dell high-rises, rather than 500 or so on a Mac Mini, which is a perfect PC for most computer users (who have already acquired a monitor, keyboard etc).

I don't give a **** about computer gaming (other than WoW) as I have an Xbox, and most entry-level/regular users don't use their computer for serious gaming like most 'polytubbies.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

There is far more "wrong" about the MacOS X UI than there is with the Windows XP UI. Once you actually study interface design and understand it, you can make an argument...

As for spyware -- you're running Spyware all the time. World of Warcraft 1.6.1 and above scans a list of processes you're running every few seconds and reports it back to Blizzard.

That is, by definition, spyware. Congratulations.


Yes, World of Warcraft = PORNDIALEROMFGLOTTERYWINNER=YOUCOMETONIGERIA.exe

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:40 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
FWIW, I update Windows XP every time an update is released; use Firefox myself, and have tried to do what I can to get it set up so the other users did too; run Spybot/AdAware/Microsoft AntiSpyware or whatever it's called...and still there is junk stuck on here: everytime IE is opened, a huge toolbar w/ all kinds of useless ad links pops up.

I don't know what your problem is then -- my family's computer, and my BF's computer, never has that **** on it. And my BF and family aren't technical geeky computer people.

If you're a retard and click the stupid popups/lottery-winning links you see, you'll get **** on your computer you don't want.

The only reason that doesn't affect you on a Mac is because the Mac marketshare is so pathetic there are no programs offered in popups for you to install. If everyone used a Mac it'd be bloated down similarly by stupid users.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:41 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Yes, World of Warcraft = PORNDIALEROMFGLOTTERYWINNER=YOUCOMETONIGERIA.exe

Either way your private information is being sent to others without your permission, what's the difference?

Spyware and viruses can exist on ANY platform. PERIOD. It's not even a requirement for a virus to exploit a vulnerability, they can just rely on "social engineering" and stupid users to run.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:42
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quote:
There is far more "wrong" about the MacOS X UI than there is with the Windows XP UI. Once you actually study interface design and understand it, you can make an argument...


That's the standard response of people who can't really defend their views.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:44 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
That's the standard response of people who can't really defend their views.

I'm posting arguments here, you're posting rhetoric.

I'll be more than happy to defend my views -- give me some examples of why you think the MacOS UI is better. I'll happily tear them down for you, along with references to guidelines they violate, etc.

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
That's the standard response of people who can't really defend their views.


The irony...

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:50
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quote:
I'm posting arguments here, you're posting rhetoric.

I'll be more than happy to defend my views -- give me some examples of why you think the MacOS UI is better. I'll happily tear them down for you, along with references to guidelines they violate, etc.


But your means of defending your views are just appeals to authority: "I read it in the book, so it must be right". Sorry, I've been at university too long to fall for that crap. What's written in books is often disputed, and more often today's truth is tomorrow's idiocy.

If you want a good example of my views you can go digging in the archive for one of the old threads on this topic. I'm not going to waste my time repeating obvious truths, since my time is valuable to me and I'm not going to waste it on a fool like you.

I still remember your argument that it was bad to have an X as Excel's icon because people would mistake it for the "close" button. Jesus Christ....

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:53 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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When I started with my new Ad Agency, I walked into a "Mac Shop" after years of using Windows. I was told not to worry... how easy it was to use, how it never crashed, how it could do everything I would ever want, how in 6 months I would never want to go back to windows again. The owner was so sure of it, he bet me a lunch on it. 6 months later, he bought me lunch. I was the first board member to get a PC and dump the Mac. 6 months after that, half the board members now have windows...

It sucked... OS X always crashed or locked up. It couldn't run half the software that is standard for my profession... I couldn't even check out most of our rich media advertising that we were running on the web because my Mac couldn't load them. I found it difficult to do easy things even after using it for months... stuff that was second nature to me in Windows. In Windows, I could always figure something out... not so with my Mac.

Documents we sent to clients in a windows enviornment couldn't be read. Our e-mail system had problems with other people's email systems...

Asher can list all the "facts" and the technology differences... I can only list my experiences as a user in the real business world. Asher and I agree on so few things... but this is one that we can agree on.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:57
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I know a long time Mac user, and he doesn't like OS X (don't know which version), he prefers OS 9.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
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Jan 1970
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 07:59 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

At the time, half the people in the agency had OS 9 and the rest had OS X. All the people with OS 9 complained and wanted OS X. All the people with OS X wanted windows

Zopperoni is offline Zopperoni
Emperor

Dec 2000
time: 06:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:01
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Gotta love a happy ending

Ninot is offline Ninot
King
Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:06
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Asher is right on the UI argument. I learnt so in school. I remember a classic exchange between student and professor.

Student: "How come we never learn how to program anything for Macs or whatever?"

Prof: "Because Macs are just prissy little toys that cant really do anything but draw. We're trying to teach you how to actually get something accomplished"

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:11
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What's wrong with the Mac OS X UI? And, while we're at it, what's wrong with the Windows UI?

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:14 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by nostromo
What's wrong with the Mac OS X UI?


For starters... it can't run 90% of the software I need to do my job.

Second, it can't run many of the games I want to play...

Besides the internet and word processing, those are the two major reasons why I use computers

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:17
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Verto, seems like you're trying to go for the 'look at this.. looks kind of cool, levels, not trash, clean, wood, almost modern like, woot the toot center of computers and entertainment'-desk. This is very common these days.

But tell you teh truth, it looks like if you farted while playing CivII, the whole system will come down and prolly land on your head.

Just saying bro..

hate the game.

Riesstiu IV is offline Riesstiu IV
Settler

Nov 2003
time: 05:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:23
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Only a fascist would use a Mac.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:25 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Games are the main reason I use windows.

Asher is right about noobs causing most windows security problems. It's so bad that to keep noobs from messing up the house internet, when I set a noob up a new system, I install Linux and sometimes they're not aware of the difference, since they're using it as a web browser and jukebox, not a computer.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:51 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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quote:
Far and away the #1 problem is the novice users themselves, not Windows. The vast majority of spyware/adware/etc is installed by novice users -- like those lameass JPG images that are made to look like a Window saying -- "YOU HAVE WON $1000000000000000000!!!! CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE TOOL TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE"



No no no no, the #1 problem are the novice users connecting to the Internet for the first time and getting every imaginable malware on their pc for not being able to install stupid Windows security patches in 20 seconds

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 17-08-2005 08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
The irony...


Indeed... all the while Asher using facts to back up his claims while Aggie uses.... um... what is Aggie using?

I've used Macs a few times. I think the one menu bar setup of Macs is the dumbest interface design known to man! It aggravates me every time I use one.

 
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