20-08-2005 04:23									#31
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quote: when i was young.. i was a virgin till i married. a commitment made by me and yes in a religious context. but you have to see in the whole sence of when that was.. back in the late 60's and 70's when everyone was in the middle of the free sex revolution.. i was one of a few virgins i knew at the time. most were not.

I don't think things are much different now than back then. I don't know of any of my guy friends who have held off.

	20-08-2005 04:25									#32
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Who cares about sex. If someone doesn't want to have sex except with their future husbands/wives, so what. Let them. It's their choice. Their body and stuff.

The fact is, if it's for religious or what ever other reasons, they are not likely going to enjoy sex before getting married, because it woudl be thinking 'oh now I'm breaking my promise' etc other negative feelings. IF it doesn't come naturally, the good feeling, wanting to have sex without any doubts, then well.. what's the point. Sex is supposed to be fun. So if the chances are it won't be fun, why do it anyway.

So those folks, better keep their minds and have sex with their married partners. That works for them.

What's so bad about it. I don't get it.

	20-08-2005 04:26									#33
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quote: So it's only the folks who have no respect for themselves who wait? Maybe they want a husband rather than a 'boyfriend', and feel that the best way to get what they want is to wait for one.

I love the strawman. Did you miss the part where I told boann the middle is the place to be? But yes, I fear that those who stick to abstinence until marriage don't have respect for themselves, just like those who'll screw everything that moves.

They won't trust their own judgment, but will conform.

quote: If you're stuck with a boyfriend, then there's not much chance of getting a marriage out of it, if the boyfriend has everything he wants without one.

My God you are clueless! Yeah, because no one has ever gotten married when the had sex before marriage. Nope... the boyfriend had everything he wanted without the marriage and marriage never came. What world do you live in Ben?

quote: As for conforming to the Christian model, I'd think the pressure to conform works more the other way. After all, isn't it just the way the world works nowadays?

When women who have sex even a few times are called sluts, I think there is still massive pressure to conform to the Christian model... especially if you belong to a strongly Christian family or live in a stongly Christian society (like the Southeastern US).

	20-08-2005 04:28									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I don't think things are much different now than back then. I don't know of any of my guy friends who have held off.

true that.. its not much different..
rare to find a man saving himself for love
ive a great deal of respect for that choice.

	20-08-2005 04:31									#35
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So? I express my love far more strongly than that. I'm afraid you are short sighted.

	20-08-2005 04:32									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi If you're stuck with a boyfriend, then there's not much chance of getting a marriage out of it, if the boyfriend has everything he wants without one.

Why would a women want a husband that is only getting married for sex? You don't even have to get married for sex, because there are plenty of women who will have sex with you anyway.

Any women who chooses to not have sex with me is leaving herself open for a breakup. I'm not marrying anyone for sex. That's for sure. I doubt anyone else will either, unless they're losers.

	20-08-2005 04:35									#37
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quote: They won't trust their own judgment, but will conform.

You are quite right, I don't trust my own judgement. I know that when I am going to be that close to someone, that I am going to want to stay with them. I'm not going to be happy having anyone else.

quote: Yeah, because no one has ever gotten married when the had sex before marriage. Nope... the boyfriend had everything he wanted without the marriage and marriage never came. What world do you live in Ben?

I know of lots of folks who get stuck there. Including one of my best friends and his long term girlfriend. She's his wife in all but name.

	20-08-2005 04:40									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: So it's only the folks who have no respect for themselves who wait? Maybe they want a husband rather than a 'boyfriend', and feel that the best way to get what they want is to wait for one. I love the strawman. Did you miss the part where I told boann the middle is the place to be? But yes, I fear that those who stick to abstinence until marriage don't have respect for themselves, just like those who'll screw everything that moves. They won't trust their own judgment, but will conform. quote: If you're stuck with a boyfriend, then there's not much chance of getting a marriage out of it, if the boyfriend has everything he wants without one. My God you are clueless! Yeah, because no one has ever gotten married when the had sex before marriage. Nope... the boyfriend had everything he wanted without the marriage and marriage never came. What world do you live in Ben? quote: As for conforming to the Christian model, I'd think the pressure to conform works more the other way. After all, isn't it just the way the world works nowadays? When women who have sex even a few times are called sluts, I think there is still massive pressure to conform to the Christian model... especially if you belong to a strongly Christian family or live in a stongly Christian society (like the Southeastern US).

well ben has made a choice and its a fine choice.

like imran says.. its about respect for yourself and your choice... not to align with some moral code really but about respect for your own choices.. you should do what makes you feel good about who you are.
many do make fine relationships after having sex first..

its just i think too many put physical intimacy before emotional intimacy.. one without the other is empty.
sure its pleasureable.. but what makes it special is the connection.... mentally..
and my choice is to wait... ive been celebate now for over a year...its been a great choice for me.. not for everyone though ..

	20-08-2005 04:41									#39
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quote: Why would a women want a husband that is only getting married for sex? You don't even have to get married for sex, because there are plenty of women who will have sex with you anyway.

Ok, let's back up. Pekka said something that's valid here. What if I want to have sex with the same person without having any doubts? I know back in my mind, that I'm going to want to keep having sex with that person, just because I love them and I want to be with them, and not anyone else. Why, if this is what I am looking for, would I want to dally with other women who offer themselves?

quote: Any women who chooses to not have sex with me is leaving herself open for a breakup. I'm not marrying anyone for sex. That's for sure. I doubt anyone else will either, unless they're losers.

So any woman who says no to you, is risking a breakup? Harsh.

	20-08-2005 04:48									#40
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what the hell is a neo-feminist?

how is it different from a feminist?

I searched for this chick's pic



Don't know if it is the same one though.

Don't want to have lots of casual sex? That's fine. But don't go around pretending you are better than everyone else.

	20-08-2005 04:53									#41
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Right. If you are thinking I will regret this, why do it. I never do stuff I know I will regret, at least I try avoiding those things. SO.. there's no problem since sex is not THAT necessary.

And then a person can truly enjoy and have pleasurable experience afterwards, when the whole regret thing is passed, adn they have fulfilled their wishes. Nothing wrong in that.

And for the record, if I happen to fall in love (which doesn't exist) with some girl, and she wants to wait, it's totally cool. Maybe even I want to wait. I'm not a virgin. But I can wait with the right girl. Maybe it would be kind of great. If the girl is right.. why not?! Then again, I do like to check the compability, so that the sex won't totally suck, but .. how likely is that with a partner you are deeply in love with? It won't suck. At least not TOO bad. Then you learn to push each other the right ways, since you are open to each other, and it'll work then.

	20-08-2005 04:53									#42
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I know that I would prefer to only have sex (and engage in sexual activity) with girls who I am in love with...

and I just argued it with people in my house, and with people at CG

and am tired of arguing it (although I admit that I didn't argue it much on CG, mostly just said that I disagreed with others)

Jon Miller

	20-08-2005 04:55									#43
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I had several male freinds (from undergrad) who waited until marriage to have sex... sometimes it was because that was what the girl wanted though

Jon Miller

	20-08-2005 05:00									#44
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and it isn't even entirely religious (although is somewhat)

it is that I want sex to be romantic

also from a more practical standpoint, I think that sex is linked to love (all those powerful emotions) if you don't try to break that link sex can be an additional way to keep close to the one you love (to have something special together, which any good relationship needs)

I am not saying that relationships where people have screwed arround don't work, I am saying that I think that they have harmed themselves..

Jon Miller

	20-08-2005 05:15									#45
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wondering myself
what is a neo-feminist ?

	20-08-2005 05:18									#46
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Ok i Have been gone for a bit. But if most folks now days think that sex has a inkling to relegion well ur wrong. Boann, who i am assuming is beyond puberty, and my self, who i know is, Know the games that men play. She just like me have said you know what I dont want to play this game. i am gone. The funny thing is women now have the game book and the plays. There is nothing wrong with holding out and if you can do so all the power to ya.
I guarantee that it takes a while before u get tired of the game and start to hate the player.

	20-08-2005 05:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Ok i Have been gone for a bit. But if most folks now days think that sex has a inkling to relegion well ur wrong. Boann, who i am assuming is beyond puberty, and my self, who i know is, Know the games that men play. She just like me have said you know what I dont want to play this game. i am gone. The funny thing is women now have the game book and the plays. There is nothing wrong with holding out and if you can do so all the power to ya. I guarantee that it takes a while before u get tired of the game and start to hate the player.

beyond puberty.. lol.. yep that would be a for sure.

	20-08-2005 06:01									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka ...how likely is that with a partner you are deeply in love with? It won't suck. At least not TOO bad.

yeah, lot of geezers i know said oral sex went right out the window after they tied the knot

	20-08-2005 06:12									#49
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney yeah, lot of geezers i know said oral sex went right out the window after they tied the knot

the geezeres, oral sex, might be tmi for here

	20-08-2005 08:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by boann its just i think too many put physical intimacy before emotional intimacy.. one without the other is empty. sure its pleasureable.. but what makes it special is the connection.... mentally.. and my choice is to wait... ive been celebate now for over a year...its been a great choice for me.. not for everyone though ..

I agree completely

Except being celebate sucks ass. I do very much like sex. Very very much. But only where there is love. There must be trust and tenderness and love.

	20-08-2005 08:08									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Ok i Have been gone for a bit. But if most folks now days think that sex has a inkling to relegion well ur wrong. Boann, who i am assuming is beyond puberty, and my self, who i know is, Know the games that men play. She just like me have said you know what I dont want to play this game. i am gone. The funny thing is women now have the game book and the plays. There is nothing wrong with holding out and if you can do so all the power to ya. I guarantee that it takes a while before u get tired of the game and start to hate the player.

I don't think it is a game, and I think its a terrible construct to think of sex as a game. Because inherant in that definition there must be winners and losers. To think of sex as a game that must be won, that you play others or get played, is a terrible corruption of a pure, beautiful, loving thing.

	20-08-2005 08:23									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Dis bo-ring! this woman is just kidding herself. If she met the right man, she'd give it up in a heart beat. She just doesn't want to do the bar scene. Can't argue with that.

I think that's a lot of her point.
That Boann let you off with a mere "odd i found myself totally agreeing with her." is amazing.

I didn't read past that too many posts, so I'm going to assume you were joking.

A) I don't want to sleep with some skank that sleeps with everyone, because
B) I don't be a skank either.

No offense, Burns.

	20-08-2005 08:36									#53
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Sex is what you make of it. If you give it religious meaning, it will be religious. If it means nothing, it will mean nothing. You could pretty much say the same thing about anything. For Americans, eating a bodily function. For other cultures, eating is a celebration of taste, and people take hours to have dinner.

Feminism is about choice, the coice not to have sex, the choice to have sex with a few people, the choice to be a "slut." People could be any of those for all the right reasons or all the wrong ones.

	20-08-2005 08:39									#54
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I think if you make it mean nothing, you are missing out on things

JM

	20-08-2005 08:49									#55
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I think if you make it mean everything, you are missing out on things.

Personally, I think like everything else, it depends on context. Sex is a great form of entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with that. It is also a way to express one's feelings for another, deeping and strengthen bonds, etc. I don't think one should cancel out the other.

People should be free to enjoy meaningless sex without disapproval from the Victorian squad.

	20-08-2005 09:54									#56
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Skank alert !

	20-08-2005 09:55									#57
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It's simple. If you want sex, have sex. If you don't, don't.

Why get hung up on the concept of 'giving it up', like it's some huge sacrifice? It's natural, and pleasurable. And it's no more a woman 'giving in' to a man as it is a man 'giving in' to a woman.

I can never understand why anyone would willingly go through her whole life abstaining from something that feels good.

	20-08-2005 09:56									#58
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I think that you are missing our points

JKM

	20-08-2005 09:58									#59
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Skank alert !

Shows what you know.

Just because I believe people should have the right to do something it doesn't mean I excerise that right. I believe people should have the right to believe in invisibile friends who control everything. That doesn't mean I actually belive in invisible friends.

	20-08-2005 10:01									#60
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara People should be free to enjoy meaningless sex without disapproval from the Victorian squad.

can i quote you on that?