20-08-2005 02:52									#1
	A neo-feminist's view of abstinence Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A neo-feminist's view of abstinence
By Elizabeth Sandoval
Fri Aug 19, 7:24 AM ET



I don't want to have sex. Clarification: I do want to have sex, but only with my husband. And I don't have one of those yet.



No, I am not an ultraconservative who is cohabitating with a houseful of cats and TiVo'ing Lifetime movies. I'm a middle-of-the-road 32-year-old who likes tattoos and loud music. And yes, I am cute (I've been told by friends and strangers alike). So you can put aside the notion that I'm bitter about not being offered the chance to have sex.


What I am is a neo-feminist. Definition: "One who respects her body so much that she won't allow it to be used as someone's playground."


Handsome Man at a Bar, you think I'm cute? Thanks. Do you appreciate me or the idea of having sex with me? Because your thinking has likely been influenced by the cavortings of Samantha and Co. in the "city" or the women in most rap videos. I am not those women. If you want a workout, go get a one-day pass at Bally. It's free.


Members of the "Sex is Natural and Fun and If It Makes You Happy, It Can't Be That Bad" club want sex so badly that they willingly and repeatedly live out the following scenario: Things go "great" for a month or two. Sex quickly becomes a part of your interactions. Maybe he even meets your parents. And then, well, things just change. He dumps you or you dump him.


Regardless of why the relationship died, you are now one of many women whom he could point out on the street. "See her?" he can tell his buddies. "She's cute, huh? Yeah, I had her." I never want to be "her."


The "You Have to Know if You're Sexually Compatible or the Marriage Will Be Doomed" club will argue that one out of two marriages end in divorce, so you have to know that you're sexually compatible before you can even contemplate marriage. Well, maybe one out of two marriages end in divorce precisely because people are too free with sex. Many people don't take time to establish real communication with one another. It's false intimacy.


Many women today are weak-minded in that they readily accept society's portrayal of sexual norms. The people on The O.C. are doing it. Paris Hilton, as she's hosing down that Bentley, appears ready to do it. And more important, many people they actually know are doing it. The sheer prolificness of sex seems to make the decision for them. Women are non-self-respecting because they willingly sacrifice such an important part of their being for just a few moments of pleasure. And they're oblivious because they don't contemplate the profoundness of sex.


Women give it up as if it's nothing. When in fact, it is everything.

	20-08-2005 02:56									#2
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bo-ring!

this woman is just kidding herself. If she met the right man, she'd give it up in a heart beat. She just doesn't want to do the bar scene. Can't argue with that.

	20-08-2005 02:59									#3
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its odd i found myself totally agreeing with her.

	20-08-2005 02:59									#4
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and her views seem horridly backward and almost conservative.

She talks of women "giving it up" like the woman is there a sex toy for the amusement of man. She does concede they get a few moments of pleasure. That's all men get too. Why should men "give it up" just for a few minutes of pleasure? Aren't men allowing their body to be used as well?

	20-08-2005 02:59									#5
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That is so unreal it isnt funny. Most women know that if the guy in the bar sending u a drink and is repulsive we send the drink to the guy next to us Oh hell sex now days aint nothing special anymore, its giving away like candy, cause women have learned the one night stand game the men invented

	20-08-2005 03:03									#6
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quote: Why should men "give it up" just for a few minutes of pleasure?

Good question. Why should they?

I find myself agreeing with boann here, and it's nice to have someone agree with me for once.

Thanks boann.

	20-08-2005 03:08									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski That is so unreal it isnt funny. Most women know that if the guy in the bar sending u a drink and is repulsive we send the drink to the guy next to us Oh hell sex now days aint nothing special anymore, its giving away like candy, cause women have learned the one night stand game the men invented

thats so true..
sex is mostly meaningless these days
takes the place of real intimacy.

why be physically intimate with someone without any
emotional intimacy?

	20-08-2005 03:13									#8
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*shrug* depends on what you're lookin' for I suppose.

I mean, I'm getting married soon, and I love her to death....but on the other hand, I've had my share of meaningless sex, and don't think I'm any worse for the wear for it.

Still...good read, and a perfectly valid viewpoint.



-=Vel=-

	20-08-2005 03:14									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Good question. Why should they? I find myself agreeing with boann here, and it's nice to have someone agree with me for once. Thanks boann.

well im not real surprised we agree on this ..
this is one area im very conservative on.

i haven't always been so..
but i know my own power and strength and
don't need any vailidation from meaningless sexual
encounters.. prefer to wait for love.

	20-08-2005 03:15									#10
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i find it laughable that the men invented the one night stand blow off and then get pissy when the women get a hold of the rule book. Sex is no way a special event anymore unless you are the one of the few that can hold out and say I am not falling for the games and traps. Men and women are equally to blame for the examples that are out there today.

	20-08-2005 03:19									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski i find it laughable that the men invented the one night stand blow off and then get pissy when the women get a hold of the rule book. Sex is no way a special event anymore unless you are the one of the few that can hold out and say I am not falling for the games and traps. Men and women are equally to blame for the examples that are out there today.

yep yep and yepper.
funny how when tables are turned.. things look different.

my point exactly.. ive dropped out of the game.
dont want to play.. don't like the game.

	20-08-2005 03:23									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski That is so unreal it isnt funny. Most women know that if the guy in the bar sending u a drink and is repulsive we send the drink to the guy next to us Oh hell sex now days aint nothing special anymore, its giving away like candy, cause women have learned the one night stand game the men invented

Indeed. Sex isn't something 'sacred' and why should it be? Feminism is the living the way you want to live, and the OP writer has every right to live her way. However, this woman thinks that since other women are doing something different they are wrong. She isn't a feminist.

How are women weak minded if they decide to have sex? How are they giving up an important part of their being? What 'important part of being' are they actually giving up? They are enjoying sex and it's about time. It's been centuries and centuries that women weren't allowed to enjoy sex. Hell, they just discovered the female orgasm! Why are men allowed to enjoy sex, but women not?

	20-08-2005 03:27									#13
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no one said anything about not enjoying it.

just saying not giving it up to every tom, dick and harry that asks for it ... thats all.

	20-08-2005 03:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by boann no one said anything about not enjoying it. just saying not giving it up to every tom, dick and harry that asks for it ... thats all.

That's not what she said at all. She said abstinence, which is different than giving it up to everyone. She said those that don't do abstinence are 'weak-minded' and 'non-respecting' because they have sex with their boyfriends.

	20-08-2005 03:35									#15
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quote: She said those that don't do abstinence are 'weak-minded' and 'non-respecting' because they have sex with their boyfriends.

The reason she limits it to husbands, is because you are limited to one. Boyfriends don't have such a limitation.

	20-08-2005 03:37									#16
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I bet the author is ugly.

	20-08-2005 03:38									#17
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Women are far too easily swayed into casual sex nowadays. From a guy's (well, my) perspective why would I want to be with a girl that's 'done the rounds' so to speak?

	20-08-2005 03:39									#18
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Practice makes perfect.

	20-08-2005 03:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui That's not what she said at all. She said abstinence, which is different than giving it up to everyone. She said those that don't do abstinence are 'weak-minded' and 'non-respecting' because they have sex with their boyfriends.

well my opinion falls somewhere in between that..
i do think there are a lot of women these days that
have low self esteem and who are weak minded and don't respect themselves.. and there are a few who
seem to enjoy the role of playing the man.. moving from man to man and using them for pleasure.. honestly i don't think many are really capable of doing that without hurting themselves.

she is on one extreem and quite a lot of others on the other extreem... i find myself somewhere in the middle i think... waiting for love .. not really marriage..
love is more of a commitment .. not just a piece of paper..

of course im an older woman.. not a young person just starting out...
and ive been there and done that.. and its really not
something that makes a person feel good about yourself. being able to say no and feel proud of that is a wonderful thing.

	20-08-2005 03:52									#20
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sex is ok but when you get bored of sex, you want romance

but hell, she´s not even giving it a try

	20-08-2005 03:54									#21
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quote: Practice makes perfect.

I don't know... Isn't there something romantic about 2 people trying to muddle through for the first time?

	20-08-2005 04:08									#22
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committing sin is romantic if kissing is involved

	20-08-2005 04:12									#23
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quote: being able to say no and feel proud of that is a wonderful thing.

Being on the other side, if you were young would you take this route, not having the luxury of knowing what you know now?

It's very easy for the young folks to get discouraged. I know I struggle with waiting all the time.

	20-08-2005 04:14									#24
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EVery woman wants me. The question is, if they are ready to suicide themselves for me. There are some women who are not ready for that. But they have crazy in their head.

When they say this is not true, they are simply lying.

	20-08-2005 04:14									#25
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quote: i find myself somewhere in the middle i think

Then you aren't really in her camp . The middle is usually the best place to be.

I would think that in an era of repressed female sexuality, where women couldn't be what they wanted and couldn't have sex or admit they wanted sex, they had much lower self-esteem and less respect for themselves.

Women can have sex before marriage and still have great self-esteem and great respect for themselves. IMO, it is the mark of a well adjusted woman if she has sex before marriage. Otherwise, I'd be afraid if they had such low self-esteem and such low respect for themselves that they felt they had to conform to the Christian no-sex-before-marriage model.

	20-08-2005 04:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Being on the other side, if you were young would you take this route, not having the luxury of knowing what you know now?

when i was young.. i was a virgin till i married.
a commitment made by me and yes in a religious context. but you have to see in the whole sence
of when that was.. back in the late 60's and 70's
when everyone was in the middle of the free sex
revolution.. i was one of a few virgins i knew at the time.
most were not.

it wasn't till i was disalusioned by men and marriage that
much later i went the other path for a while.

and yes i would take the same path.. again.
regret nothing.. learn from everything.

	20-08-2005 04:17									#27
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women are so boring and squishy

	20-08-2005 04:19									#28
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quote: IMO, it is the mark of a well adjusted woman if she has sex before marriage. Otherwise, I'd be afraid if they had such low self-esteem and such low respect for themselves that they felt they had to conform to the Christian no-sex-before-marriage model.

So it's only the folks who have no respect for themselves who wait? Maybe they want a husband rather than a 'boyfriend', and feel that the best way to get what they want is to wait for one.

If you're stuck with a boyfriend, then there's not much chance of getting a marriage out of it, if the boyfriend has everything he wants without one.

As for conforming to the Christian model, I'd think the pressure to conform works more the other way. After all, isn't it just the way the world works nowadays?

	20-08-2005 04:20									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit women are so boring and squishy

and men can be such pigs

	20-08-2005 04:21									#30
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quote: Originally posted by boann Women give it up as if it's nothing. When in fact, it is everything.

No. It's nothing. If you want to be proud of an accomplishment do something besides not having sex. Not having sex isn't anything but stupid.