25-08-2005 02:27									#121
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Ah, I see it now. Never mind.

Anyway, ditch the paranoia. And maybe the rolleyes too, while you're at it.

I took a stab at Jackson because I'm tired to death of hearing him comment on everything on God's green earth in order to further his own personal standing among some people. He's a phony.

	25-08-2005 02:28									#122
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It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

	25-08-2005 02:29									#123
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The blood of the catpialists and latifundia running in the streets. AFAIC, Chavez is very likely going to be one of the most successful socialists in history. Since he didn't come to power via revolution, charges of him being a dictator don't stick, despite how much the right-wing flings it. The U.S. is too tied up in other wars to invade Venezuela, and their oil power makes an embargo political suicide for the U.S.

Yeah, cause you never become a dictator having once been elected, as Marcos and Fujimori among others showed. No we wont invade or embargo - that doesnt mean he'll be successful. Right now hes doing fine, with $67 a barrel oil. That gives you a lot of options.

	25-08-2005 02:29									#124
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Anyway, I love how Robertson says he's being taken out of context and that he never said he called for Chavez's assassination, whan that's exactly what he said. He's such a ****ing tool.

	25-08-2005 02:29									#125
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Actually it is.

Or at least can be.

	25-08-2005 02:32									#126
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Yeah, cause you never become a dictator having once been elected, as Marcos and Fujimori among others showed.

He may become a dictator, but he shows no sign of being one yet. But you have people on these boards repeating reactionary lies and calling Chavez a dictator simply because he didn't resign because of a few marches and a possibly crooked election. If that's the case, what is Bush?

	25-08-2005 02:32									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Actually it is. Or at least can be.

Well, no. If they are out to get you, it isn't paranoia. However, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

	25-08-2005 02:36									#128
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He may become a dictator, but he shows no sign of being one yet. But you have people on these boards repeating reactionary lies and calling Chavez a dictator simply because he didn't resign because of a few marches and a possibly crooked election. If that's the case, what is Bush?

Human Rights Watch

Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
(Washington, July 8, 2005) — In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.

The court has given the government a green light to persecute its opponents. Prosecuting people for treason when they engage in legitimate electoral activities is utterly absurd.


Yesterday, a court in Caracas ordered that María Corina Machado and Alejandro Plaz be tried on treason charges brought by a public prosecutor because their nongovernmental organization, Súmate, accepted foreign funds for a program that encouraged citizen participation in a referendum on President Hugo Chavez’s presidency in 2004. Two other Súmate leaders, Luis Enrique Palacios and Ricardo Estévez, will also be tried on charges of complicity with this alleged crime.

“The court has given the government a green light to persecute its opponents,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “Prosecuting people for treason when they engage in legitimate electoral activities is utterly absurd.”

Machado and Plaz have been charged under article 132 of the Venezuelan Penal Code with “conspiracy to destroy the nation’s republican form of government.” If convicted, they face up to 16 years in prison.

Súmate engaged in voter outreach and education that encouraged participation in a national referendum to determine whether Chávez should remain in office. The Venezuelan Constitution establishes that elected officials can be subject to recall referendums solicited by at least 20 percent of the corresponding electorate. Chávez won the August referendum by a substantial margin.

The prosecution charged Machado and Plaz with violating Article 132 by receiving financial support for their referendum-related activities from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), an organization which is itself financed by the U.S. Congress. According to the NED, Súmate received US$31,150 which was used for workshops to educate citizens regarding Venezuela’s constitutional referendum process.

	25-08-2005 02:36									#129
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If they do get you, it doesn't matter if it's paranoia.

	25-08-2005 02:40									#130
	Put an end to popups!

HRW:

Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened
(Santiago, March 24, 2005) — Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.

By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression.

“By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “While countries across Latin America are moving to repeal such laws, Venezuela has enacted further restrictions on the press that will shield officials from public scrutiny.”

The amendments extend the scope of existing provisions that make it a criminal offense to insult or show disrespect for the president and other government authorities. Venezuela’s measures run counter to a continent-wide trend to repeal such “disrespect” (or “desacato”) laws. In recent years, Argentina, Costa Rica, Paraguay, and Peru have already repealed such laws, and other countries like Chile and Panama are currently considering legislation that would do so.

The human rights bodies of the United Nations and of the Organization of American States have repeatedly urged states to repeal such provisions.

The president, vice-president, government ministers, state governors and members of the Supreme Court are already protected from disrespect under the law. The new provisions extend this protection to legislators of the National Assembly, members of the National Electoral Council, the attorney general, the public prosecutor, the human rights ombudsman, the treasury inspector, and members of the high military command.

Anyone convicted of offending these authorities could go to prison for up to 20 months. Anyone who gravely offends the president, on the other hand, can incur a penalty of up to 40 months in prison.

Other amendments increase the penalties for defamation and libel. Penalties for defamation have been increased from a maximum of 30 months of imprisonment to a new maximum of four years if the statement is made in a document distributed to the public. Those convicted would also have to pay a fine of up to 2,000 tax units (currently equivalent to more than US$ 27,000). The penalty for libel rises from a maximum jail term of three months to a new maximum of two years.

These changes to the criminal code follow a Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television, which entered force in November and imposes wide-ranging administrative restrictions on radio and television broadcasting.

“These new provisions add to the arsenal of press restrictions already at the government’s disposal,” Vivanco said. “By further criminalizing criticism of government authorities, these laws will restrict the public’s ability to monitor abuse by those in power.”

	25-08-2005 02:43									#131
	Inflate your Upload Space

So the U.S. is a dictatorship for engaging in political harrassment of dissidents? Besides, it's a crime in the U.S. to accept foreign funds for political work. Who are we to criticize Venezuela for doing the same thing?

Furthermore, HR's credentials aren't terribly good with me. They supported Plan Columbia.

	25-08-2005 07:15									#132
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So today, Robertson denied he said these things, and now has apologized for saying the things that he previously denied saying. How can anyone give this man an ounce of credibility now?

	25-08-2005 07:18									#133
	Put an end to popups!

Yep, HRW continues to show it's beholden to capital.

	25-08-2005 07:22									#134
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

At least he's trying to do the right thing. It's just so hard to figure out what is the right thing to do.

	25-08-2005 08:08									#135
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quote: "I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out.' And 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping; there are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP [Associated Press], but that happens all the time," Robertson said on "The 700 Club" program.

Yeah, yeah, take him out to dinner...thats what I meant...yeah, thats the ticket...

Oh Pat, you said Chavez believes the CIA has tried to assassinate him and you think its a mis-interpretation to maintain the context of assassination you just established prior to telling us we need to take him out in the very next sentence? Yup, Pat's a lawyer...

	25-08-2005 08:13									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I never mentioned you not once cause I know I can't joke with you anymore least the world ends. And if Sava is so thinned skinned he needs to watch out what he dishes out everyday. He at least knew when to move on and get over it. I'm not impressed with your impersonation of the wounded party. Not everyone cares enough to attack you man. Some people joke around a little here and there, but I suppose you can't do that anymore.

And your joke impersonation / disclaimer routine gets old too.

	25-08-2005 08:14									#137
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Regarding Robertson, man, what a liar.

"I never said 'assassination'" even those were his exact words.

	25-08-2005 08:21									#138
	Remove this text

"Assassination" is only one word, but I'll admit it's a long one.

	25-08-2005 08:21									#139
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pizzwned!

	26-08-2005 11:09									#140
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Not one to be outdone by a rank amatuer religious douchebag, Fred Phelps has stepped into the fray... targetting Sweden's royal family.

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?...c53b1883a6928be

quote: Published: 25th August 2005 15:32 CET Minister of hate to "hunt down" Swedish king The fanatical American Baptist minister, Fred Phelps, is on his way to Sweden. "We'll hunt down your king," he said ominously to Expressen. "It doesn't make any difference where he tries to hide." Phelps' hatred of the royal family and all things Swedish is linked directly to his equally virulent hatred of homosexuals. He praises homophobic crimes, including murder. When controversial Swedish minister, Åke Green, was convicted of inciting hatred of homosexuals following an anti-gay sermon, Phelps saw red and turned his attention to Sweden. "You're doomed to spend eternity in hell," he continued. "All you Swedes and your Swedish king and his family." The minister and twenty members of his congregation from the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, are planning to come to Sweden at the beginning of September. They are bringing plenty of placards in order to spread their message that Sweden is the cradle of all evil and that the king rules a nation of sodomites. King Carl Gustaf is their primary target. "Your king represents your doomed country and we'll find him wherever he may be." Phelps claims that Sweden deserved to suffer in the new year tsunami catastrophe in southern Asia and has designed a monument to 'celebrate' the deaths of over 500 Swedes in Thailand. The royal household regards the proposed visit as a serious risk and has increased security around the king and the royal family. "We'll be informing Säpo of this," said royal spokeswoman, Ann-Christine Jernberg. So, should Sweden laugh, cry or take Fred Phelps seriously? Expressen columnist, Lars Lindström, is in no doubt that this is no joke. "If he were a cartoon character, I'd laugh. But now I just feel ill. Minister Fred Phelps has such extreme views that even the Christian far right in the USA feel a bit queasy." Lindström argues that it isn't just singled out Sweden that's exercised about Phelps, but that he attracts a lot of attention in his home country. "Phelps has eleven lawyers fighting for his constitutional right to cast the objects of his hatred to the fires of hell. To dismiss him as a village idiot is to take the easy way out." "With friends like Fred Phelps, Åke Green doesn't need a single enemy," concludes Lindström. Sources: Expressen Andy Butterworth is a freelance writer based in Gothenburg.

	26-08-2005 11:49									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Regarding Robertson, man, what a liar. "I never said 'assassination'" even those were his exact words.

Nononono he didn't say "assassination" he said "assassinate" and as Jon Stewarts points out, if it's a verb you don't really mean it. Check out the daily show webpage for a clip of Jon Stewart pwning Robertson....

	26-08-2005 15:57									#142
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Mr Robertson clearly does believe Chavez should be 'taken out' in one of a number of linguistic, touristic ways:

an Argentinean South Atlantic helicopter 'take out' perhaps, with some close-up sightseeing of the beautiful briny sea;

a Liberian beach picnic take-out with flambe human and AK47 'music';

a Nicaraguan diving holiday inspecting the world's only freshwater sharks with one's hands and feet bound;

or an inspection of New Jersey's more upmarket landfill sites, with gentlemen whose names end in vowels.


Certainly if someone wanted to 'take me out' there's plenty of other such exciting possibilities too.

	26-08-2005 18:48									#143
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quote: an Argentinean South Atlantic helicopter 'take out' perhaps, with some close-up sightseeing of the beautiful briny sea;

	26-08-2005 20:01									#144
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And so we add Chavez to Pat's ever-growing "Homicide Wish List," after Supreme Court Justices, the State Department, Islam and people who don't already know what they want to eat when they use the drive-thru at Chick-fil-A.

If Pat were Muslim he would be an officer of al-Qaeda...

	27-08-2005 07:56									#145
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Mr Robertson clearly does believe Chavez should be 'taken out' in one of a number of linguistic, touristic ways: an Argentinean South Atlantic helicopter 'take out' perhaps, with some close-up sightseeing of the beautiful briny sea; a Liberian beach picnic take-out with flambe human and AK47 'music'; a Nicaraguan diving holiday inspecting the world's only freshwater sharks with one's hands and feet bound; or an inspection of New Jersey's more upmarket landfill sites, with gentlemen whose names end in vowels. Certainly if someone wanted to 'take me out' there's plenty of other such exciting possibilities too.

No, no he meant Chinese "take out"