13-10-2000 03:59									#1
	Anyone up for a "Pluel"? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I am hoping when some other games are done to play a no wonders equal start type game that is duel like in nature but has 3 to 5 players. I once called it a "Pluel" cuz it is duel like with plural # of players.

King - Deity

No wonders unless Apollo & Manhattens are wanted

Medium to large map maybe even with geometrical land masses and identical resource seed for equal starting lands.

If random map, then 3bil wet warm or whatever is agreed on for the most interesting mixture of terrain/resources

NO AI's!!!
Villages only

Trade routes, actual exploration, embassies, and other agreed on in game stuff rather than trading techs, and ICQ cooperation. Every person for themselves kindda thing here like you would in a duel only with 3-5 players.

It may be awhile for this game to get going, but am interested in some feedback to see if there is interest, and what playing times might work best.

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Crustacian (edited October 12, 2000).]</font>

	14-10-2000 05:44									#2
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Crusty...I like the concept. I would like to do something like that as a multi-week weeknight game that always meets on the same nights.

	14-10-2000 15:24									#3
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Nappy, does tue and wed eves sound good?

	15-10-2000 00:19									#4
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Tues and Wed eves are perfect . There is an EDT guy, Drake, who is also interested in a weeknight game. Lets get 2-3 more players who are interested in an ongoing Tues/Wed evening game and launch this thing.

	15-10-2000 00:43									#5
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would all treaties and alliances be allowed. Would it be similar to a diplogame? When you say like duels, so you mean all war?

	15-10-2000 01:01									#6
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Suas, my guess would be that since duels almost never involve alliances, a "pluel" would work the same. It's an interesting idea; MP without alliances...

I suppose it would be the classy version of a Zone game.

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	15-10-2000 07:29									#7
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I'm interested in such a game if we can find some compatible free time.

	15-10-2000 07:32									#8
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It would be neat if each player had for objective to eliminate 1 player. Whoever realize his objective wins the game.

	15-10-2000 10:11									#9
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This is a game setting I'd love to try out!
Preferably Deity level (of course!)
But I don't like arri's idea - too limted and someone could get lucky early just by position...

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	15-10-2000 14:25									#10
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Deity......dont sweat it.....we could use one of Cavebears maps where everyone had their own continent..everyone could get a good "EQUAL" start.....then you are on your own....we are looking at Tues/Wed nights 6pm PDT - 10 pm PDT for an ongoing multiweek game......who is in?????

	16-10-2000 07:14									#11
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Good ideas, and good assortment of players with some interest.
For me there are a couple older games, maybe not if all can not resume...that will be precidence over this new one. Arii and Deity you are in one of them, so you would likely agree we should finnish that game if at all possible first.
I will be on tuesday eve and maybe if nothing else is going we can start. I don't mind if it takes a couple weeks before we can play tho as a little extra for thought can make quite a great game.
thx for the feedback.
If there is enough players and a few of us are unavailable maybe go ahead and start one anyway too.

	16-10-2000 18:59									#12
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Thats 9pm-1am here on the east coast, but you guys seem to have a good group getting together, so I can probably suffer at work a few days a week if this game turns out to be of high quality. Dig the individualized continent idea thing. Starting with the same resources leaves less up to luck and more to good strategy (the continents are of similar composition right Nap?)

I'm in. Who's hosting?

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"Oh people, know that you have committed great sins. If you ask me what proof I have for these words, I say it is because I am the punishment of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you!" -- Genghis Khan, Bukhara 1220
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by drake (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	17-10-2000 03:18									#13
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Crusty.....I am leaving on vacation in a couple of days and will be gone for a week and a half. Maybe we can get this game organized now and then launch it on Wed. Nov. 1st. It sounds like a very promising concept.

	17-10-2000 04:05									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i can make it tues &wed at the proposed times, sounds like an interesting game style. and by the way how do post those smiley face icons on your posts

	17-10-2000 06:03									#15
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The
wed nov 1st sounds like a good
kicker-off-er date to aim for.

How many then do we have available for the tue and/or wed eve pacific time slot?

Here is what we seem to have so far...maybe one group could play more easily on differant days too.

arii
brocher
Crustacian
drake
iadkins
Nap Bonaparte
suas333


To me 7 players could make an awesome game...but on the other hand there are 7 individuals to all have co insiding scheduals.

So what about a 3 and a 4 player game unless we get some more who want to join?

Any other suggestions as to rules and parameters?

My game is standard off the CD from the store with Microprose patch...no more no less. This is my prefferance. Just like confessing host techs and # of settlers, I expect anyone to mention any unintintional lag related "benifits" they get in a game so the other players can agree how to deal with it. This is also a princepal like in OCC where if you get a 2'd city from a hut it is agreed to disband it.

If anyone in my game wants to use some modification or version of
the game differant than this please say so ahead of time so all can make an intelligent choice as if it is acceptable to them or not.

check to the left of where you type your comments in for posting ..it says "smiles legend" for how to make the smilies


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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

	17-10-2000 06:05									#16
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Cavebear, lets just call it "a classy version of Civ" period, and leave the zone out of it

	17-10-2000 06:32									#17
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Crusty & Co
I have to work tomorrow (Weds here in Aussie) so I can't play USA Tues night for The Challenge game. I could play USA Weds night (Thurs here) but finbar is in another scheduled game with the Apolyton elite, I think....
so, maybe we could have our first session of this new game on your Weds night....

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	17-10-2000 18:23									#18
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Nov 1 sounds great for a launch on the big game, but I would love to get something started this Wenesday if others want to as well. I'll also be available Tuesday Nights. Two weeks is just an awful long time.....
Crustacian-
"Just like confessing host techs and # of settlers, I expect anyone to mention any unintintional lag related "benifits" they get in a game so the other players can agree how to deal with it."
This just basically means that all players reveal their starting assets, so that there is an even start to the game??

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"Oh people, know that you have committed great sins. If you ask me what proof I have for these words, I say it is because I am the punishment of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you!" -- Genghis Khan, Bukhara 1220
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by drake (edited October 17, 2000).]</font>

	18-10-2000 02:13									#19
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by drake on 10-17-2000 09:23 AM</font>
This just basically means that all players reveal their starting assets, so that there is an even start to the game??


<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

drake, we could do this if all agreed, but it was not what I was trying to suggest. I was just using a parralel principle that others already use comonly in games to support, in view of all the versions of the game out there, the need to have a game where all are fairly evenly matched with no extra edges other than their game skills and experience.

So just like many will openly say if they start with host tech advantage in case all want to restart until there is none, it would be nice if the players in this game agreed to have just the standard game version "stock" so to speak from the company. And that we would refrain from letting lag related bug advantages aid us and so forth.

One game it seemed like when i lost a city I would get gold ADDED to my treasury. A couple times when gold was gifted to me I recieved a good deal larger amounts than gifted. Tho I do not understand how to consistantly achieve these things, still if in this game stuff like that happens it would defeat the purpose of the game, and for example if it happened to me I would mention it so we could all decide how to handle it.

I have nothing against those who use free versions of the game bootlegged, but I am unsure if these are in part responcible for some of the bugs. Maybe it really makes no differance, but a stock version just seemed to be a common denominator to work from.
And if someone gained through a bug an edge just say so and we can decide how to even it out.

So Deity does nov 1st US wed eve sound good to you for a starting date with tuesday eves also possible?

Anyone who wants to not wait should feel free to start one long as there is someone left to play nappy and me If it was three of us that would be a game in itself.

Do all agree that 6 or 7 players might be too much to co ordinate? Other posts in the past suggest it can be hard to keep going.

	18-10-2000 07:35									#20
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I'm totally with the "stock" version of the game - getting an unfair advantage or cheating DOES destroy the point of the game..........

	19-10-2000 09:20									#21
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lets vote on settings to see where interest lies.
differing interests in this area is ok cuz several games can be set up to accomodate variety.

King King for me.
Emporer
Deity

1x1 for me FIRM

Large world medium to small land no huge continents.
A premade map with equal starting locations or home continents even if it is geometrical is fine with me. But flexible.

No Ai's FIRM

Apollo wonder only

No huts &lt;---I seem to remember this being possible

Diplomats and spys can only make embassies, gather visual intelligence, sabotage units, not city improvements. No stealing, no bribing.

These are what I would like, but can be flexable.

Suas333:
A pluel is not necissarily a bloodlust style of playing. It can be a space race with war or without, science race only (no war, no SS), or a maximum pop by a certain date, or conquer the world, or win by powergraph...whatever.
But it is done as individuals rather than with alliances. With actual exploration and intelligence, rather than trading maps, techs, and tip offs.

There is nothing like a good ol regular game of Civ with wonders, stealing...you name it...
But this is for a little something differant, and still using standard game version...NO MODS.


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Crustacian (edited October 18, 2000).]</font>

	18-10-2000 22:31									#22
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I have a couple premade maps that can be used. They give each player a similar starting location, land mass, hutts, special ressources, access to other civs.
Regarding the dips: no tech stealing is ok with me. What about sabotage?
I guess you can still pick up a tech by conquering a city.
I like the idea of setting a goal that would allow to declare a winner in a shorter period of time (other than complete conquest and landing in AC whitch takes forever in large MP games).

	19-10-2000 00:45									#23
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Crustacians settings work for me. A pure game, with no luck involved would be refreshing. I initially thought that having no wonders would kind of defeat the purpose of the game, but in a sense it would make it more interesting and "realistic" as far as civ gets. I would prefer world conquest, or spaceship launched as the margin of victory. I know this would make for a really long game, but by having other goals such as powergraph, or wealth, etc. declare a winner would make it feel like an incomplete game(atleast to me). A traditional game sounds more fun. In my opinion more than five players is too many- too long and too hard to stay consistent, but thats just me.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by drake (edited October 18, 2000).]</font>

	19-10-2000 03:48									#24
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Arii,
Those maps would be good to use. Can the huts be illiminated?
Are you familiar with them, so the other players should review the one we use?
This is no problem to me since if it were a world map we all are familiar with anyway.

It may be good for all to be familiar with the map.

brocher
crustacian
deity
drake
nappy

are on for next wed.
anything in suggested settings above not agreeable just say so.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Crustacian (edited October 18, 2000).]</font>

	19-10-2000 09:42									#25
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I just put together a custom kick ass map for this 5 player game. 5 Continents, same amount of area, same amount of resources, same amounts of terrain, etc.(give or take a couple) will be the starting points for each player. But surrounding these continents, -which are relatively evenly spaced- are a great variety of land masses and islands. In the center of the map is a massive continent. The setup of the map gives a player some privacy if they so desire, but is really designed to encourage interactivity. But it is large, so there will definetly not be any early conquests..............icq me if you want a copy to check out- for a game like this, this will be perfect.

	19-10-2000 10:09									#26
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Crusty...settings sound fine to me. If no happy wonders are allowed,we should probably play at king level.Allowing Manhattan Project would make it more historical/realistic. If you decide on a premade/known map, please e-mail me a copy to racndoc@home.com. Leaving town Friday for Maui......see you at 6pm on Nov. 1st.
Aloha
Nappy

	19-10-2000 22:46									#27
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Nap Bonaparte is Nappy... I am a little slow somedays! Cool. Sounds like you have been on a bit of a winning streak.. good stuff!
6 pm PST is a little early, but possible for me. A once a week game would fit best into my schedule. I will confirm soon.

	19-10-2000 22:56									#28
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So is Oct. 25th the definite start date? I want to play with this crowd, but I plan on starting a different game next week with Capo if the start date isn't until Nov 2....................Crusty- this is your game, so let me know.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by drake (edited October 19, 2000).]</font>

	20-10-2000 04:05									#29
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Lets see if we can get a game going next wed, and one going nov 1st.
8 total players would be perfect: 4 each game.
We would all eventualy get to play each other anyway.

I think there are 6 definite so far...

P.S. send me a map

	20-10-2000 04:19									#30
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Hey, guys,

I like the idea of using "equal" start maps. If you use something similar to one of Cavebear's maps, I'd love to play.

I played on one of Cavebear's maps one time where the whole map was revealed from the start. That might be something to consider as well.