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Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:14
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Who will win?

quote:
Canada hints at trade war with U.S.

REGINA, Canada (AP) -- The Canadian government on Tuesday hinted at an escalating trade war with the United States, with two federal ministers warning of tariffs on American products in retaliation for Washington's policies against Canadian lumber.

Trade Minister Jim Peterson is identifying areas where Canadian tariffs could put maximum pressure on the U.S. economy with minimal damage domestically, two of his cabinet colleagues told reporters attending a Liberty Party caucus in western Canada.

Industry Minister David Emerson used a sports analogy to describe the federal government's willingness to retaliate against its NAFTA partner.

"I have a background from my younger days in hockey. When somebody slammed you into the boards with undue force and aggression, you took their number," Emerson said. "I think we've got to take their number."

The Bush administration imposed the tariffs in 2002 after accusing Canada of subsidizing its lumber industry. Most U.S. timber is harvested from private land at market prices, while in Canada, the government owns 90 percent of timberlands and charges fees for logging.

The warning comes one week after the United States announced it would ignore a decision by a NAFTA panel that found Canadian lumber exports did not harm U.S. producers.

Emerson said Ottawa was trying to "identify a number of products where a tariff on American exports into Canada can be applied without serious damage to the Canadian economy and, hopefully, with maximum impact in the U.S."

Canada is already seeking WTO authorization for billions of dollars in punitive tariffs against U.S. imports and is going before the U.S. Court of International Trade in New York to force the refund of duties.

With more that 80 percent of Canadian exports going to the United States and the countries exchanging $1 billion each day, Canada would need to tread carefully to avoid a crippling trade war.

But the federal government is intent on making its point that U.S. Customs has illegally collected $4.1 billion in tariffs on Canadian softwood since 2002, said Finance Minister Ralph Goodale.

"We want to make sure that whatever option we pursue is effective in making our point ... without at the same time shooting ourselves in the foot," he said.

"Canada has wanted to make it very clear that we are not happy with the position of the United States to simply ignore what is a clear NAFTA ruling in Canada's favor," Goodale said.

One particularly tough measure has already been ruled out: imposing export quotas on Canadian oil going to the United States. Emerson, who initially supported the idea when he was a lumber industry executive, now says it would unfairly saddle the western oil producing province of Alberta with the bulk of the economic fallout.

"We are stronger as a country when we pull together in a unified way," he said.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
Duke of Civ3 Hall of Fame

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Jun 2002
time: 21:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:15
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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:16
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Damn, and here we were trying to keep this contained to a single thread with stealth technolgy (TM).

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:17 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
One particularly tough measure has already been ruled out: imposing export quotas on Canadian oil going to the United States. Emerson, who initially supported the idea when he was a lumber industry executive, now says it would unfairly saddle the western oil producing province of Alberta with the bulk of the economic fallout.


Thank God. Sanity.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:23
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Incidently, Emerson is a wimp!

Energy exports are the one thing we could effect that would be most effective, and the Yanks would have the least power against.

Come Dec 15, turn off the gas lines. Turn off the oil. Turn off the power. Shut the NE and parts of the Mid West down.

Assuming GWB didn't assume that OBL had taken over and invade, it would be very effective. It would also be much of Canada effected (BC, AB, SK, ON, and PQ).

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:25
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Or, just embargo all wood products.

That could be good too. The NY Times would scream bloody murder.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 08:28
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Incidently, I've been looking for a bank that will allow me to keep funds in Euros. Haven't found one locally. Anyone have any suggestions?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 09:57
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While the US talks of free trade, it keeps trying to close its own markets by accusing effective competitors of dumping, or subsidizing (this is particularly ironic), or some such. Then it can slap tariffs on them.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 20:27
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I don't know...if Chavez actually carries out his threat to cut oil shipments to the United States, Canada putting quotas on its oil shipments suddenly has a lot more bite.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I don't know...if Chavez actually carries out his threat to cut oil shipments to the United States, Canada putting quotas on its oil shipments suddenly has a lot more bite.


Rumsfeld just said that Ralph Klein is a closet muslim and the CIA just leaked a document that mentions the city of Red Deer as an obvious Communist hotbed.

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 20:37
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just curious: are those steel tariffs still in place or got they lifted ?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:15
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So anyone here cheering patent US hypocrasy when it comes to the rule of tlaw over international free trade?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:16
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I suggest we "trade" Canada some nuclear weapons if they try anything.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:29
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clearly, Canada needs to join the EU

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:30
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The USA shouldn't be putting tarriffs on Canadian Lumber, but Canda also shouldn't escalate this into trade war. Trade wars help nobody.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
The USA shouldn't be putting tarriffs on Canadian Lumber, but Canda also shouldn't escalate this into trade war. Trade wars help nobody.


And the US putting tarriffs on Canadian Lumber isn't an act of - trade - war?

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:33
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What are we supposed to do, Shi, hold our breath and stamp our feet?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:34 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Trade wars don't help anybody, but real wars do?

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
What are we supposed to do, Shi, hold our breath and stamp our feet?


Withdraw from NAFTA.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:43
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That would be brilliant.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
Withdraw from NAFTA.


Throw the whole thing out because of one dumb*** administration?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:44
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Canada

While cutting off oil exports would hurt Alberta the most, it would also drive home the point. With gas prices at such a high level, it could be breathtakingly effective.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:46 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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The US has clearly broken the NAFTA treaty. Why should Canada continue to unilaterally adhere to a treaty which is ignored by one of the signatories?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Trade wars don't help anybody, but real wars do?


Duh real men fight real wars. Only pansy Canadians fight a trade war

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:49 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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We should go after products which derive from the same geographic regions as do the lumber protectionists.

Idaho potatoes? Any other suggestions?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:50 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Duh real men fight real wars. Only pansy Canadians fight a trade war


You might want to tell Dubya that, because he's been fighting both kinds ever since he got into office.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We should go after products which derive from the same geographic regions as do the lumber protectionists.

Idaho potatoes? Any other suggestions?


Do whatever you want to Idaho

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I don't know...if Chavez actually carries out his threat to cut oil shipments to the United States, Canada putting quotas on its oil shipments suddenly has a lot more bite.


not really, everyone is forgetting that the world is at refining capacity. If they don't send to us it doesn't become usable oil products. That said, just because all these communists can't effectively attack us now doesn't mean they won't always lack this ability. We're going to have to do what we can to ensure our own supply of oil and that will mean goring a lot of people's sacred cows.

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
The US has clearly broken the NAFTA treaty. Why should Canada continue to unilaterally adhere to a treaty which is ignored by one of the signatories?


it may have something to do with the massive trade surplus they enjoy with their supposedly evil protectionist neighbor.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 24-08-2005 21:56 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha


not really, everyone is forgetting that the world is at refining capacity. If they don't send to us it doesn't become usable oil products. That said, just because all these communists can't effectively attack us now doesn't mean they won't always lack this ability. We're going to have to do what we can to ensure our own supply of oil and that will mean goring a lot of people's sacred cows.




Okay, so Chavez being a communist is rhetoric, but at least it's understandable rhetoric.

Are you now going to claim that the GoC is filled with dirty commies?

 
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