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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 19:46
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Is civil unrest not far away?

Anger rises among Mississippi's poor after Katrina By Paul Simao
Wed Aug 31,10:11 PM ET

BILOXI, Mississippi (Reuters) - For about a decade this gambling town on Mississippi's Gulf Coast has been the place to be in the state if you were poor, down on your luck and looking for work.

That changed on Monday when Hurricane Katrina came ashore, leveling hundreds if not thousands of houses, stores and commercial buildings and killing scores of residents.

The legalization of gambling in Biloxi created an economic boom in the early 1990s and the city developed a reputation as a place where a person could get a decent-paying job in the casino or hospitality business.

But not everyone prospered. In the devastated streets and atop the rubble piles where their homes stood before Katrina blew through, a bitter refrain is increasingly heard. Poor and low-income residents complain that they have borne the brunt of the hurricane's wrath.

"Many people didn't have the financial means to get out," said Alan LeBreton, 41, an apartment superintendent who lived on Biloxi's seaside road, now in ruins. "That's a crime and people are angry about it."

Many of the town's well-off heeded authorities' warnings to flee north, joining thousands of others who traveled from the Gulf Coast into northern Mississippi and Alabama, Georgia and other nearby states.

Hotels along the interstates and other main roads were packed with these temporary refugees. Gas stations and convenience stores -- at least those that were open -- sold out of water, ice and other supplies within hours.

But others could not afford to join them, either because they didn't own a car or couldn't raise funds for even the cheapest motel.

"No way we could do that," said Willie Rhetta, a bus driver, who remained in his home to await Katrina.

Resentment at being left behind in the path of one of the fiercest hurricanes on record may have contributed to some of the looting that occurred in Biloxi and other coastal communities.

A number of private residences, including some in upscale neighborhoods, were targeted, residents said.

Class divisions, which often fall along racial lines in this once-segregated southern state, are not new to Mississippi. It traditionally is one of the poorest states in the United States.

In 2004, Mississippi had the second lowest median household income and the highest percentage of people -- 21.6 percent -- living in poverty, according to a report released this week by the U.S. Census Bureau.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
King
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 19:50 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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As always, a good comprehensive place for information is Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 19:58
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For some reason, David Brooks have mellowed out and is making a bit more sense lately:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/opinion/01brooks.html

quote:

Op-Ed Columnist
The Storm After the Storm
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: September 1, 2005

Hurricanes come in two waves. First comes the rainstorm, and then comes what the historian John Barry calls the "human storm" - the recriminations, the political conflict and the battle over compensation. Floods wash away the surface of society, the settled way things have been done. They expose the underlying power structures, the injustices, the patterns of corruption and the unacknowledged inequalities. When you look back over the meteorological turbulence in this nation's history, it's striking how often political turbulence followed.

In 1889 in Pennsylvania, a great flood washed away much of Johnstown. The water's crushing destruction sounded to one person like a "lot of horses grinding oats." Witnesses watched hundreds of people trapped on a burning bridge, forced to choose between burning to death or throwing themselves into the churning waters to drown.

The flood was so abnormal that the country seemed to have trouble grasping what had happened. The national media were filled with wild exaggerations and fabrications: stories of rivers dammed with corpses, of children who died while playing ring-around-the-rosy and who were found with their hands still clasped and with smiles still on their faces.

Prejudices were let loose. Hungarians then were akin to today's illegal Mexican immigrants - hard-working people who took jobs no one else wanted. Newspapers carried accounts of gangs of Hungarian men cutting off dead women's fingers to steal their rings. "Drunken Hungarians, Dancing, Singing, Cursing and Fighting Amid the Ruins" a New York Herald headline blared.

Then, as David McCullough notes in "The Johnstown Flood," public fury turned on the Pittsburgh millionaires whose club's fishing pond had emptied on the town. The Chicago Herald depicted the millionaires as Roman aristocrats, seeking pleasure while the poor died like beasts in the Coliseum.

Even before the flood, public resentment was building against the newly rich industrialists. Protests were growing against the trusts, against industrialization and against the new concentrations of wealth. The Johnstown flood crystallized popular anger, for the fishing club was indeed partly to blame. Public reaction to the disaster helped set the stage for the progressive movement and the trust-busting that was to come.

In 1900, another great storm hit the U.S., killing over 6,000 people in Galveston, Tex. The storm exposed racial animosities, for this time stories (equally false) swept through the press accusing blacks of cutting off the fingers of corpses to steal wedding rings. The devastation ended Galveston's chance to beat out Houston as Texas' leading port.

Then in 1927, the great Mississippi flood rumbled down upon New Orleans. As Barry writes in his account, "Rising Tide," the disaster ripped the veil off the genteel, feudal relations between whites and blacks, and revealed the festering iniquities. Blacks were rounded up into work camps and held by armed guards. They were prevented from leaving as the waters rose. A steamer, the Capitol, played "Bye Bye Blackbird" as it sailed away. The racist violence that followed the floods helped persuade many blacks to move north.

Civic leaders intentionally flooded poor and middle-class areas to ease the water's pressure on the city, and then reneged on promises to compensate those whose homes were destroyed. That helped fuel the populist anger that led to Huey Long's success. Across the country people demanded that the federal government get involved in disaster relief, helping to set the stage for the New Deal. The local civic elite turned insular and reactionary, and New Orleans never really recovered its preflood vibrancy.

We'd like to think that the stories of hurricanes and floods are always stories of people rallying together to give aid and comfort. And, indeed, each of America's great floods has prompted a popular response both generous and inspiring. But floods are also civic examinations. Amid all the stories that recur with every disaster - tales of sudden death and miraculous survival, the displacement and the disease - there is also the testing.

Civic arrangements work or they fail. Leaders are found worthy or wanting. What's happening in New Orleans and Mississippi today is a human tragedy. But take a close look at the people you see wandering, devastated, around New Orleans: they are predominantly black and poor. The political disturbances are still to come.

Koyaanisqatsi is offline Koyaanisqatsi
Prince
of Maine paupers.
May 1999
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
God. Now they've put a hold on transport between the domes because people in NO are shooting at the chinooks that are helping move people. How ****ing stupid do people get?

And now, according to the national guard, this never happened.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 20:39
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reports that New Orleans evacuees have committed acts of violence at a relocation center in Baton Rouge.
Baton Rouge shelters overwhelmed.

People across the country offering to put up evacuees in their homes.

Predominantly black east New Orleans virtually destroyed.

Water draining back into Lake Ponchartrain.

Evacuees returning to some of the parishes west of New Orleans.

New Orleans Times Picayune, publishing online, from Baton Rouge.

Rescues of isolated people from rooftops continues.

People whove been rescued, have been dropped on any dry spot, highway overpasses, etc. Evacuation from superdome taking precedence.

Many areas in Lousiana, Missippi, with large numbers of evacuees, are still without electric power themselves.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi

And now, according to the national guard, this never happened.


NG is running the bus evacuation of the healthy, which continues. The ambulance service which was running the air evacuation of the sick, reports theyve stopped. At least from the superdome. I presume the evacuation from hospitals is continuing.

edit: pardon. CNN indicates its the air evacuation from the hospitals that is having problems.

Last edited by lord of the mark on 01-09-2005 at 21:00

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:09
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FEMA has suspended boat rescues due to dangers to the rescuers.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:12 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Hurricanes come in two waves. First comes the rainstorm, and then comes what the historian John Barry calls the "human storm" - the recriminations, the political conflict and the battle over compensation. Floods wash away the surface of society, the settled way things have been done. They expose the underlying power structures, the injustices, the patterns of corruption and the unacknowledged inequalities. When you look back over the meteorological turbulence in this nation's history, it's striking how often political turbulence followed.


This is something I discovered about a decade ago, inadvertantly. In almost every case of major unrest or revolution, the proximate cause is a disaster, manmade or natural it doesn't matter.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
FEMA has suspended boat rescues due to dangers to the rescuers.


Where the hell is the army?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


Where the hell is the army?


the army doenst specialize in boat rescues, the Coast Guard does. Theyre quite good at it.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark


the army doenst specialize in boat rescues, the Coast Guard does. Theyre quite good at it.


Not for rescue: to keep or reestablish order while FEMA or the Coast Guard does their work.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, theoretically, the skyscraper foundations are in the bedrock.
I do not think so, I believe the delta sediments are too deep under NO.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:23 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
The point is that the connection appears to be producing more and stronger hurricanes than in the recorded history of the area due to the simple equation: warmer waters = stronger hurricanes.


That isn't true in the slightest.

quote:
Katrina is more intense than was Camille at any point in Camille's lifetime


Camille was more intense than Katrina at landfall, however, which is what really matters. The difference in their maximum intensity was also negligible: 905mb for Camille compared to 902mb for Katrina.


It really isn't good enough to use blogs to support your arguments. It's using someone else's opinion to support your opinion. It's clear that the source of a Hurricane's energy is warm surface water. As the oceans warm as a result of the greenhouse effect, the hurricane season begins earlier, lasts longer, and produces more frequent and more powerful hurricanes. Here is a scientific article which cites several studies that indicate this: http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html There are lots more.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:32
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quote:


By ADAM NOSSITER

Associated Press Writer

Outside the Convention Center, the sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement. Thousands of storm refugees had been assembling outside for days, waiting for buses that did not come.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside, and hungry, desperate people who were tired of waiting broke through the steel doors to a food service entrance and began pushing out pallets of water and juice and whatever else they could find.

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

``I don't treat my dog like that,'' 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. ``I buried my dog.'' He added: ``You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here.''

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:40 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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quote:
Floods wash away the surface of society, the settled way things have been done. They expose the underlying power structures, the injustices, the patterns of corruption and the unacknowledged inequalities.


The proof is unfolding before our eyes. The political consequences of Katrina will reverberate for years.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:41 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
It really isn't good enough to use blogs to support your arguments. It's using someone else's opinion to support your opinion. It's clear that the source of a Hurricane's energy is warm surface water. As the oceans warm as a result of the greenhouse effect, the hurricane season begins earlier, lasts longer, and produces more frequent and more powerful hurricanes. Here is a scientific article which cites several studies that indicate this: http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/glob_warm_hurr.html There are lots more.


While I really hate to support Drake, I would trust this guy's opinion about the causes of Atlantic basin hurricanes over anyone else's.

techumseh is offline techumseh
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 21:52 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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That's not who DT used to support his position. It was a blogger called GEA 3 or something like that.

As for William Gray's opinion, you have to respect it, given his credentials. However, he is in the minority when he dismisses human activity as a significant cause of climate change.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:04 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Just cuz DT used a bad source didn't mean he was wrong. That's my only point.

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
Settler
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:10
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You're right, Techumseh. If only the US had supported Kyoto then none of this would have happened.

What point exactly are you trying to make with all this backhanded sympathy and down-talking?

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:25
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Well, DT's blog does have a link to a government website showing a decline in previous decades, but a potential increase in hurricanes in this decades.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

But, I don't think the numbers alone supports either argument.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:32
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Anyway, couldn't the increase in hurricanes be a sort of spearman-beats-tank effect? Like just a whim of the RNG gods?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


Not for rescue: to keep or reestablish order while FEMA or the Coast Guard does their work.


when they said it was too dangerous for FEMA to do boat rescues, did they mean from violence, or from the water hazards? I did see reports of rescue boats being fired at - but again that means you need guys in boats - Coast Guard, police boats, etc. And if all you need are trained men with guns, theres tens of thousands of National Guard headed that way now. I dont think the 3rd infantry division is a better idea than regional NGs. Unless youre trying to make an unrelated political point.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:37 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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It's not random, it's just the input factors are so comlicated it's impossible for our lazy brains to figure it out. According to William Gray, it's much more closely linked to African rainfall and El Niño than global warming. See the link in one of my previous postings.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:39
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quote:
It's not random, it's just the input factors are so comlicated it's impossible for our lazy brains to figure it out.


I know that. That still makes it practically random (though obviously influenced by things we can detect).

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 22:51 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
You're right, Techumseh. If only the US had supported Kyoto then none of this would have happened.

What point exactly are you trying to make with all this backhanded sympathy and down-talking?


Oh, hi Imran! Using your "Canadian" alter-ego to put words in my mouth is a very clever tactic. But no.

Brundlefly is offline Brundlefly
Prince
United States
Nov 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 23:00
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The highest-profile lawmaker impacted by the storm: Mississippi Senator Trent Lott. His antebellum home in Pascagoula was leveled by the storm surge.

"Instant karma's gonna get you.." - John Lennon

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Brundlefly
The highest-profile lawmaker impacted by the storm: Mississippi Senator Trent Lott. His antebellum home in Pascagoula was leveled by the storm surge.

"Instant karma's gonna get you.." - John Lennon


So karma killed thousands and displaced millions just to get to Trent Lott?

Sandman is offline Sandman
Prince
Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 23:10
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I see Dubya is putting in a dismal showing, as usual. He can't even do phoney sympathy without an inane grin spreading over his face.

Brundlefly is offline Brundlefly
Prince
United States
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  Old Post 01-09-2005 23:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


So karma killed thousands and displaced millions just to get to Trent Lott?


No, it spared millions of lives and spared millions of homes from damage, but it found Trent Lott's home..

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-09-2005 23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandman
I see Dubya is putting in a dismal showing, as usual. He can't even do phoney sympathy without an inane grin spreading over his face.


I wasn't too impressed with his remarks either but what would you want him to do. Cry like a baby for a few hours?

What I want to know is where is Hollywood? Where are the benifits and donations? Should we lie to them and say it happened in a foreign country so that their give a **** is triggered?

 
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