30-08-2005 09:14									#61
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New Orleans has rather elaborate (gold plated?) plans for flood control. The hands are always out for uncle sugar. Nothing is done if uncle sugar doesn't pay up.

If they were told that they had to pay for this themselves, they might have a more realistic set of priorities. Or maybe not. It's their city, not mine.

	30-08-2005 09:14									#62
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quote: What exactly do you think New Orleans would have done with increased hurricane prevention funds? Send them back? They may have increased the levees, or strengthened them, or done other projects to reduce any damage a hurricane may cause.

Who knows what they would have done? My point is that you have no evidence for your assertion, which is quite necessary for one to come to a rational conclusion on the merits of said assertion.

	30-08-2005 09:17									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Who knows what they would have done? My point is that you have no evidence for your assertion, which is quite necessary for one to come to a rational conclusion on the merits of said assertion.

So... less funding for hurricane prevention would have no effect when a hurricane actually does come? When New Orleans is saying they don't have enough money for projects (as per the article)?

	30-08-2005 09:19									#64
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We have too much money! Don't give any money to us!

	30-08-2005 09:21									#65
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From the article:

quote: Money is so tight the New Orleans district, which employs 1,300 people, instituted a hiring freeze last month on all positions. The freeze is the first of its kind in about 10 years, said Marcia Demma, chief of the Corps' Programs Management Branch.

Any more dumb statements from you, Dan?

	30-08-2005 09:22									#66
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quote: So... less funding for hurricane prevention would have no effect when a hurricane actually does come? When New Orleans is saying they don't have enough money for projects (as per the article)?

The weak point in New Orleans was the levees on Lake Pontchatrain. Unless you can show me how a lack of funding thwarted a plan to increase the height of those levees, I have no choice as a rational person but to treat your assertion as an unfounded one.

	30-08-2005 09:23									#67
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Yeh, sounds like the folks of New Orleans will have to spend more money on their levees. It isn't my real estate, dude. If they choose to put more money into the pockets of their corrupt politicians rather than into levees, there's really nothing I can do about it.

	30-08-2005 09:25									#68
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It would be better if they got rid of as many levees as they could. Allowing the Mississippi to flood in the delta area would start to rebuild the natural hurricane defenses that have been steadily destroyed over the last few decades.

	30-08-2005 09:30									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: So... less funding for hurricane prevention would have no effect when a hurricane actually does come? When New Orleans is saying they don't have enough money for projects (as per the article)? The weak point in New Orleans was the levees on Lake Pontchatrain. Unless you can show me how a lack of funding thwarted a plan to increase the height of those levees, I have no choice as a rational person but to treat your assertion as an unfounded one.

NO has no money to hire new people and had construction projects on the Lake, given pitifully small funding, which was scheduled to be cut in fiscal year 2006 so they only had enough money to pay their employees rather than increasing the funding so they could engage in more construction to protect the city:

quote: Construction generally has been on the decline for several years and focus has been on other projects in the Corps. The district has identified $35 million in projects to build and improve levees, floodwalls and pumping stations in St. Bernard, Orleans, Jefferson and St. Charles parishes. Those projects are included in a Corps line item called Lake Pontchartrain, where funding is scheduled to be cut from $5.7 million this year to $2.9 million in 2006. Naomi said it's enough to pay salaries but little else.

	30-08-2005 09:34									#70
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That's all you've got? I've found better evidence for your side in the past few minutes, and I'm not even trying...

edit: Charity for Imran...

Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 30-08-2005 at 09:39

	30-08-2005 09:36									#71
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quote: NO has no money

That's BS. They've got money. Rather, it's a matter of their spending priorities, over which I have no control and should have no control.

	30-08-2005 09:41									#72
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There happens to be this political subdivision called a country, which deals with issues that have a significant impact on said country.

I suggest you look into it.

	30-08-2005 09:44									#73
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That's BS. They've got money. Rather, it's a matter of their spending priorities, over which I have no control and should have no control.

It's people like you what cause unrest.

You know, if you don't want to be part of this country, you can leave.

	30-08-2005 09:54									#74
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quote: edit: Charity for Imran...

Yes, those are the rather elaborate plans that I referenced above. Notice that they aren't figuring out how to pay for this themselves. Always uncle sugar.

quote: The $14 billion, 30-year Coast 2050 plan being pushed by a governor's committee and Louisiana members of Congress seeks to rebuild the coast

	30-08-2005 09:56									#75
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Yeah, like the whole country won't be screwed if NO gets destroyed. You would starve your nose to spite your face.

	30-08-2005 10:03									#76
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Yeh, sounds like the folks of New Orleans will have to spend more money on their levees. It isn't my real estate, dude. If they choose to put more money into the pockets of their corrupt politicians rather than into levees, there's really nothing I can do about it.

You have some of the most bizzare and irrational reasoning. This storm is predicted to cause around 25 billion in insurance damage alone and you don't think that the Federal government should have taken preventive measures by giving them a little more funding?

http://www.kvue.com/sharedcontent/d...na.31f1021.html

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily..._8693_db035.htm

http://english.donga.com/srv/servic...d=2005083040798

Do me a favor and go to Google news and type in "Katrina Economy" and see what all comes up.

edit: Use this link otherwise a couple of those articles might require registration.

	30-08-2005 10:03									#77
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The people of NO and the surrounding areas would be greatly more screwed than the rest of the country. Therefore, I expect them to act according to their informed interests.

	30-08-2005 10:05									#78
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quote: This storm is predicted to cause around 25 billion in insurance damage alone and you don't think that the Federal government should have taken preventive measures by giving them a little more funding?

No. The insurance companies can handle it. That's what they're there for. If the premiums become too much, maybe there will be a particularly clear trade-off for the people of New Orleans of investment in flood control or paying sky high premiums (or abandoning their city, if that's what they see fit to do).

	30-08-2005 10:53									#79
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The city of Washington D.C. should use only its money - collected from the people living in that city AND NOT from federal coffers since the rest of the nation's taxpayers don't live there - to pay for their own security. Everybody knows that D.C. is just a terrorist attack waiting to happen, but why should anyone else have to pay for their preparations. The people living there knowingly do so at their own peril and as such should pay for their own security on their own dime, not ours. A major attack in the city will likely cause billions of dollars in damage, but no federal dollars should be given to fund preventative measures. The insurance companies can handle it. That's what they're there for.
[/DanS]

	30-08-2005 11:01									#80
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Imran tried to use that line and it's still a lame-ass argument. DC is a federal city, as set forth in the constitution. The people in DC vote at the discretion of the congress, for one. DC's spending is approved or amended by the congress as it sees fit. It was done that way to protect the power of the states. There are trade-offs with which New Orleans doesn't have to deal.

Last edited by DanS on 30-08-2005 at 11:09

	30-08-2005 11:09									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Any more dumb statements from you, Dan?

The dumb people are those that put their life savings into a place that is below sea level and then are confused when mother nature kicks them in the balls. Move the the hills man

	30-08-2005 11:13									#82
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I guess I do feel sorry for those born there and who really can't move but after seeing people get flooded out every few years and still not take the hint, it has kind of hardend me against feeling a lot of sympathy for them.

	30-08-2005 11:20									#83
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Imran tried to use that line and it's still a lame-ass argument. DC is a federal city, as set forth in the constitution. The people in DC vote at the discretion of the congress, for one. DC's spending is approved or amended by the congress as it sees fit. It was done that way to protect the power of the states. There are trade-offs with which New Orleans doesn't have to deal.

Sorry, but there's still millions of USAmericans who don't live there and aren't subject to the risks of living there. I still don't see why the people living there get to suck off our collective teat when they should be sucking on their own.
[/DanS]

	30-08-2005 19:39									#84
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New Orleans has an intractible problem unrelated to climate. The Mississipi delta is a loose delta still compacting (and lowering) under its own weight, the ground under New Orleans is simply shrinking in volume. With out new deposits of silt and crud, it will just naturally sink below water level. In the built up and leveed areas there are no new deposits, and they will continue to sink. Skyscrapers and other heavy buldings or infra structure just speed this up. Parts of New Orleans are already 10 feet below sea level. There is currently no pratical way to stop the sinking.

	30-08-2005 19:49									#85
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See I told you that Stalin was right. People like DanS are just incorrigible and will have to be dispensed with when the revolution comes...

	30-08-2005 21:46									#86
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I've said my piece about this and so I think I'll stop posting in this thread. When this thread got going, it looked like the New Orleans levees were going to hold. Since a major levee broke this morning, it looks like the town is going to be under water. I don't feel like kicking them while they're down. My sister's in-laws might not have much of their houses to come back to (all insured, thank God).

	30-08-2005 22:09									#87
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quote: Originally posted by DanS My sister's in-laws might not have much of their houses to come back to (all insured, thank God).

I wouldn't be too confident in the insurance companies. They'll pay out this time but then the bean counters will start doing their thing. Flooding in many parts of the UK has increased in frequency and amount of damage over recent years to the point that premiums have stopped going up for quite a few people because no insurance company will cover their properties at any price any more.

If the insurers get the idea that this is going to become a regular occurrence into their heads they'll walk away. That would mean no insurance or a scheme backed by the federal government - probably cheaper to invest in prevention rather than pick up the pieces then.

	30-08-2005 23:21									#88
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Flood insurnace is all Federal, since private companies won't insure against it. Most mortgage firms also require it when you buy a house in a flood plain, so most people have it.

	31-08-2005 04:35									#89
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Flood insurnace is all Federal, since private companies won't insure against it. Most mortgage firms also require it when you buy a house in a flood plain, so most people have it.

They should just lose all their property to teach them a lesson instead of sucking off the rest of us. [/DanS]

	31-08-2005 04:36									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui They should just lose all their property to teach them a lesson instead of sucking off the rest of us. [/DandroidS]