31-08-2005 06:40									#61
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand So Black Cat, that means one could enter your home and refortify as required. What was your address again?

Well, if the whole country/society was breaking up, so yes, but in current situation I guess that only local shops are "looted"

I really don't think that my address will be to any value for you - you would be busy looting more local addresses before mine if it should be nessecary

	31-08-2005 06:52									#62
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand You know what? This hurricane didn't check voter registration before it hit; but go ahead and spout that kind of garbage if you want. By the same token, I don't see it mentioned that any camera people, police, shopowners with guns, asked to see a voter registration either. YOU just made the observation, all on your little lonesome, that democrats are thieving looters. I would never say that, nor have I ever claimed to be republican. Your argument, with all due respect, is rank with error.

TY i am not sure what ur voter registration card has to do with stealing. As lancer and a few others posted some of these folks are in ankle deep water carrying of electronic equipment. As for the sitting in my dry home and all let me tell you that is bull I donte money to the red cross and united way out of mine and tubers paychecks. every dam week. There are aids out there to help these folks and the voulnteers are getting it there as fast as they ca there is no need for stealing. and if every thing is wet what good are the diapers and tp any way?? the necessities my baby needs.

	31-08-2005 06:53									#63
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Looting is looting , but if the goods are going to be destroyed by a flood anyway , why waste them ( note that if they were not going to be destroyed , then looting would be condemnable , while here it is not , as you are not causing any loss to the shopowner ( instead of the hurricane destroying goods , you are using them ) ) ?

	31-08-2005 06:56									#64
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand We need Jackie Childs from Seinfeld. Reprehensible. Contemptable. Nay, shall I say it? Democratic.

as for looting?

I'd only loot from Wal-Mart...

	31-08-2005 06:59									#65
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Hey I "shop" where I choose. Don't go picking my supply points for me. Ok?

	31-08-2005 07:03									#66
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Hey I "shop" where I choose. Don't go picking my supply points for me. Ok?

that's egregious, preposterous... OUTRAGEOUS!!!!@@!

	31-08-2005 07:14									#67
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Or in this case i loot where i want to damit to give me no crap
I dont know bout most of u but with all that nasty ass water in the roads i wouldnt trust anything as far as food products in the area

	31-08-2005 07:16									#68
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Just for the record, I'll make my peace with the Man after the fact, when times comes; but no way would my family suffer.
I would hope the choice of loot or not loot could be avoided through planning, as I said.
Food. Essentials to living. Not an arm full of cds.

	31-08-2005 07:20									#69
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quote: Originally posted by boann i would have prepared.. but what if very poor and not able.. then all you do have wiped out.. no aid you can see coming... yes id take what i needed for children or baby to survive... take me to jail.. at least be fed there , given water.

Boann that doesnt help u feed ur baby. ull be carted off to jail ur child taken from u and then what. The floods are stil there, folks are still stealing and the disaster has not gone away, except now, you face a new disaster you no longer have ur children and ur in jail.

	31-08-2005 07:41									#70
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quote: the "looting" of stores

What on gods green earth makes you think even 10% of the looting is going on in stores?

There are one million vacant homes with no police protection. THAT is where the real looting is currently taking place.

But it isn't Boris's home, so its okay.

	31-08-2005 08:10									#71
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the only thing I would consider stealing is probably cars from dealerships or something, but that wouldn't be practical since registration and everything...

maybe I could sell it to a chop shop

I dunno

but I'm not about to go getting TV's or anything

I already got all the stuff I need

I pretty much agree with Sloww

only loot for food, water

although I heard in Mississippi people went to the riverboat casinos and stole money...

I might do that

	31-08-2005 08:11									#72
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People who loot such things during a situation like this deserve to drown.

	31-08-2005 08:29									#73
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand YOU just made the observation, all on your little lonesome, that democrats are thieving looters.

Take a logic course, because no such observation was made, or even implied.

No one seems to be addressing my point: Food and other perishibles aren't going to sit around waiting for 1 month (or two or three) for their "rightful owners" to return, and certainly aren't going to survive the flood waters.

Isn't it better people put this stuff to use--people in need, mind you--than fretting about looters?

For ****'s sake, WHO THE **** CARES ABOUT LOOTERS WHEN THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TRAPPED AND IN DANGER OF DYING?

Looting is a non-story. It's a big "so what?" Nobody should be concerned about it at this point, considering the massive human catastrophe that is unfolding. We shouldn't be expending ANY resources to do anything about it, when those resources would be better served, you know, saving people's lives.

So I could care less if some idiot goes and rips off a TV. We'll see he how far he gets with it (I'm sure he won't get to take it with him in a mandatory evacuation).

	31-08-2005 08:40									#74
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Private property is an abstract idea, and it's not an essential abstract idea. Some things outweigh it.

	31-08-2005 09:27									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Take a logic course, because no such observation was made, or even implied. No one seems to be addressing my point: Food and other perishibles aren't going to sit around waiting for 1 month (or two or three) for their "rightful owners" to return, and certainly aren't going to survive the flood waters. Isn't it better people put this stuff to use--people in need, mind you--than fretting about looters? For ****'s sake, WHO THE **** CARES ABOUT LOOTERS WHEN THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TRAPPED AND IN DANGER OF DYING? my kids behindLooting is a non-story. It's a big "so what?" Nobody should be concerned about it at this point, considering the massive human catastrophe that is unfolding. We shouldn't be expending ANY resources to do anything about it, when those resources would be better served, you know, saving people's lives. So I could care less if some idiot goes and rips off a TV. We'll see he how far he gets with it (I'm sure he won't get to take it with him in a mandatory evacuation).

Boris I thought i did address ur point.. And I did take a logic course biggest waste of time. Had to take it after ethics but any way. With all that sewer water perishables would be ewwwwwwwwww and the other stuff i wouldnt want. Its not the point if the crap is wasted or not sure its wasted and the stoer owners will be repaid. I also said the calavary was on the way,
diapers go figure the city is under water they are probably messed up any way and i sure wouldnt put a nasty diaper on my kid

	31-08-2005 09:28									#76
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i was speaking of being there in that situation.
not in a normal city or normal circumstances.

there is no social services.. there is no jail to take anyone to.. there is no law and order.
only survival...

i would take what food and water was needed.
to survive.. from where ever it was available.
then try to get the heck out of there...

personally i would have left when the evacuation notice was first given...

but im speaking from the point of view of some very poor person without car, without resources.
then i would do what i had to do.. thats all im saying
and anyone who says they would be ethical or moral
rather than have water and feed their children..
well i just don't believe they have ever tested their ideals in real life.

	31-08-2005 09:31									#77
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actually, I probably wouldn't be out looting, I'd probably be at my house protecting all my **** from the looters

	31-08-2005 09:39									#78
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quote: Originally posted by boann i was speaking of being there in that situation. not in a normal city or normal circumstances. there is no social services.. there is no jail to take anyone to.. there is no law and order. only survival... i would take what food and water was needed. to survive.. from where ever it was available. then try to get the heck out of there... personally i would have left when the evacuation notice was first given... but im speaking from the point of view of some very poor person without car, without resources. then i would do what i had to do.. thats all im saying and anyone who says they would be ethical or moral rather than have water and feed their children.. well i just don't believe they have ever tested their ideals in real life.

So am I would not steal to feed my children. I would seek help where i could to get it. If i couldnt get it i sure the hell wouldnt feed them with crap that has been under 8 feet of sewer water. There are many organizations out that offer imedieate help. In times of disasters i am sure that there are lots of adults more then willling to give a drink to a thirsty baby. I dont see my self as a holier then thou, hell i dont even go to church. Thing is i have been out on the street with a kid and it wasnt fun. But i never stole and my kid didnt starve. This disaster is horrible and i hope that the recovery comes soon. I dont pass judjement on folks that are looting but for me it is wrong and will not do it

	31-08-2005 09:40									#79
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Its nice to see some looting going, on, if only to keep things real.

Given that a lot of people lack flood insurance, the looters could do people the favor of then setting their property on fire, so that people could then make an insurance claim base don fire damage, as opposed to bieng unable to make flood claims.

	31-08-2005 09:47									#80
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Mrs T - they aren't taking stuff that's been soaked by the flood waters, so that's a non-issue. Stuff WILL be soon, as the water is going to rise another 9 feet, flooding even the areas that are currently dry. Sitting in those locales now dry are tons of supplies that will soon be under water. So who really gives a crap if the stuff gets taken and put to use?

You don't seem to comprehend the situation in New Orleans at the moment. There are NO social services. There aren't any relief organizations there, because they can't GET there. It's cut off, and the people there now are increasingly desperate. We have 30,000 people now holed up in the Super Dome, which has no electricity, water, toilets, air conditioning, etc. and is currently flooding itself.

People need water. They need food. And yes, babies need diapers, and they need dry clothes. Is it wonderful that people are taking these things from stores? No. But is it something that anyone should be remotely worried about at this point? No.

Anyone fretting over looting right now has their heads seriously up their asses.

	31-08-2005 09:47									#81
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quote: Given that a lot of people lack flood insurance, the looters could do people the favor of then setting their property on fire, so that people could then make an insurance claim base don fire damage, as opposed to bieng unable to make flood claims.

They should've left notes saying that

	31-08-2005 09:48									#82
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Its nice to see some looting going, on, if only to keep things real. Given that a lot of people lack flood insurance, the looters could do people the favor of then setting their property on fire, so that people could then make an insurance claim base don fire damage, as opposed to bieng unable to make flood claims.

Hpw do u set somethign that is e feet under water on fire?? And in the wake of a flood how do u get an insurance adjuster to belive that oh yeah ur house burned down

	31-08-2005 11:09									#83
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When was the last time a looter did a favor for the individual they were looting? Why would they hang around longer to do something else illegal that doesn't help them? Don't they have this starving baby elsewhere to help or another place to go loot?

	31-08-2005 11:17									#84
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quote: People need water. They need food. And yes, babies need diapers, and they need dry clothes. Is it wonderful that people are taking these things from stores? No. But is it something that anyone should be remotely worried about at this point? No

You are right to a degree. I do understand the degree of disaster. It is horrible in certain spots. I just find it exasperating that the less hit areas have the looting. obvisoulsy they arenot going to go back to where the flood waters are rising. The red cross and united way have been there since the night before the hurricane happened. I know a few folks that were sent there. the ability to distribute the necessities is a bit harder then the fact that help isnt there.

	31-08-2005 11:21									#85
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My take:

The city is going to be underwater. WTF cares about looters?

	31-08-2005 11:23									#86
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I didn't want to post here in the thread, hits a little bit too close to home for me. It is a slippery slope to say, that just because someone isn't going to use something, that it is ok to steal from them. I used to reuse my bus passes when I was down in Vancouver, since most of the drivers wouldn't check them. I didn't have the money to get to where I needed to go on the bus so that was my excuse.

The problem is that I didn't like what I started to have to worry about because of that. The main problem of mine then wasn't that I was stealing, but that pride drove me to do so, rather than ask for help from other folks, I would make my way even if it meant that I had to steal from someone else.

	31-08-2005 11:24									#87
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Kuci:

That's an interesting angle, but unrelevant to our discussion, because AFAIK, we aren't talking about the city, proper: If something's going to be completely ruined, isn't it better to have it stolen?

	31-08-2005 11:25									#88
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I found it staggering that some people hold property rights higher than the survival of fellow human beings.

	31-08-2005 11:27									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Az Kuci: That's an interesting angle, but unrelevant to our discussion, because AFAIK, we aren't talking about the city, proper: If something's going to be completely ruined, isn't it better to have it stolen?

Yeah, this should be obvious, even in the case of gratuitous theft with no other justification. Say you have a shop that sells expensive computer components (RAM, video cards, etc.) Better for the stuff to be saved than for it to all go to waste, even if it goes to someone who doesn't deserve it.

	31-08-2005 11:31									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker My take: The city is going to be underwater. WTF cares about looters?

Sorry Kuci the city aint going to be under water hun.. It is under water now. For the record I dont care if they do it. It has no affect on me whats so ever, I just said I wouldnt do it. The folks doing it have to live with their actions. I do hope that the flooding receeds soon.
JUst for a nother record texas flooded 3 years ago nothing as serious as a hurricane like this but had lots of flooding of stores and homes no where did looting occur Our roads were closed and the san antonio was almost crippled and still no looting