31-08-2005 11:34									#91
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quote: Yeah, this should be obvious, even in the case of gratuitous theft with no other justification. Say you have a shop that sells expensive computer components (RAM, video cards, etc.) Better for the stuff to be saved than for it to all go to waste, even if it goes to someone who doesn't deserve it

I think that people that save stuff from the Hurricane definetly deserve what they save.

	31-08-2005 11:40									#92
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Yep

	31-08-2005 12:10									#93
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quote: Say you have a shop that sells expensive computer components (RAM, video cards, etc.)

The last time I bought my RAM, harddrives and video cards in a store they were completely sealed in plastic which would endure some rain and sewer water. What would they be saving these from?

	31-08-2005 12:30									#94
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There must be some kind of Darwin award for stealing TV sets in a flooded city.

But food, water, medicine, small battery radios, clothing, boats, gasoline, whatever that will help the situation, go ahead. Any property left behind in a city that you know will be flooded could be considered to be abandoned and free for all.

	31-08-2005 13:44									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew The last time I bought my RAM, harddrives and video cards in a store they were completely sealed in plastic which would endure some rain and sewer water. What would they be saving these from?

Some. Not compelete flooding.

	31-08-2005 13:55									#96
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quote: Some. Not compelete flooding.

Are you saying the plastic wouldn't preserve the merchandise during "complete flooding"?

	31-08-2005 13:59									#97
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at this point, I really don't care about the looting. there's more important things to deal with now.

	31-08-2005 14:00									#98
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Yes. It will probably have stuff fall on it, etc., all the accompanying paperwork will be destroyed, etc. In short, the product will be ruined.

	31-08-2005 14:35									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Az Yes. It will probably have stuff fall on it,

Everything ever involved during in a complete flooding probably has stuff fall on it?

quote: people that save stuff from the Hurricane

I never heard of any looting reported before or during the hurricane. If the looting is occuring after the hurricane (and heavy things have already fallen on the fragile objects below them) and during the flooding are these 'rescue looters' saving the merchandise from a future earthquake or plane crash which would cause stuff to fall on it and ruin it?

quote: all the accompanying paperwork will be destroyed

Even if the paperwork wasn't sealed in plastic, the owner could still sell RAM, harddrive, etc equipment on EBAY or elsewhere without the paperwork or pretty box.

	31-08-2005 17:42									#100
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It is just dispicable that people are using this for their advantage.

Not food, but for profit.

quote: there is no law and order. only survival...

Nice to see that when people are not being watched, it is okay to suspend law and order. Even better most people here approve.

	31-08-2005 17:58									#101
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Looting under normal circumstances

Looting for food, water etc while in a disaster area in order to survive

Looting for luxury items while in a disaster area

Finger wagging people saying "Well, you should have planned ahead" to people who are looting to survive

	31-08-2005 18:04									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Are you saying the plastic wouldn't preserve the merchandise during "complete flooding"?

I doubt if any PC component packaging is waterproof.

My video card (BFG Geforce 6800 Ultra) was just encase between two pieces of plastic. Not even in a bag.

AFAIK, RAM and processor packaging isn't very sturdy. I doubt it would survive flooding.

	31-08-2005 18:36									#103
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On CNN they showed 3 guys leaving a dept store with luggage bags. They were having difficulty carrying the bags, so I assume they were full.

A police car drove past the men. The officer could not have missed what they were doing. After he passed them, he turned on his lights and sped off somewhere.

So as far as the police are concerned, atm, looting isn't as big a deal.

I agree with most here tho. Why not take the perishable items. It would be more of a crime to allow them to go to waste and because of that, someone died from lack of food.

	31-08-2005 18:38									#104
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No one in New Orleans will die from lack of food, it is stupid to think otherwise.

Lack of water, or even worse contaminated water, a very real possibility.

	31-08-2005 18:39									#105
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Just an example.

	31-08-2005 18:44									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I found it staggering that some people hold property rights higher than the survival of fellow human beings.

Exactly, if you need fresh water food, medicine, etc. in a situation like in NO you have to do what you have to do to survive. if that means looting grocery stores, so be it. as for the idiots grabbing TVs and whatsuch, so what, the stuff would of been riuned anyways, in a situation like this it doesn't hurt anyone.

Libbies and Conservatives fretting about property rights in a situation like this:

Slippery slope arguments:

	31-08-2005 19:00									#107
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What is bizarre about the looting is that I wonder what these people think they will do with their cartload of Walmart property as they move it through the flooded streets to their flooded house with no electricity?

	31-08-2005 19:10									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Sorry Kuci the city aint going to be under water hun.. It is under water now. For the record I dont care if they do it. It has no affect on me whats so ever, I just said I wouldnt do it. The folks doing it have to live with their actions. I do hope that the flooding receeds soon.

Just how is the water going to recede from a bowl that is beneath sea level?

	31-08-2005 19:11									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Just how is the water going to recede from a bowl that is beneath sea level?

duh

jesus

	31-08-2005 19:12									#110
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BTW, several reports said that the National Guard was siphoning gas out of vehicles in the streets, as they are running out of fuel.

OMFG! Teh National Guard is stealing people's gas! THIEVES!

	31-08-2005 19:18									#111
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I would like to see a figure just for vehicular losses. There must be 10,000 of cars underwater right now.

	31-08-2005 19:28									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I would like to see a figure just for vehicular losses. There must be 10,000 of cars underwater right now.

in a city of over 1 million?

much more than that I bet

	31-08-2005 19:28									#113
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Would anyone care to gather statistics on number of people looting living essentials such as food, water, and yes, diapers vs. looting of luxury items?

I have 5 dollars burning a hole in my pocket that I'd like to wager on this answer.

	31-08-2005 19:30									#114
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Would anyone care to gather statistics on number of people looting living essentials such as food, water, and yes, diapers vs. looting of luxury items? I have 5 dollars burning a hole in my pocket that I'd like to wager on this answer.

Personally, I'm wondering about how money people are actually looting, period.

I suspect the number of actual looters is low.

	31-08-2005 19:39									#115
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Would anyone care to gather statistics on number of people looting living essentials such as food, water, and yes, diapers vs. looting of luxury items?

Again I'd like to point out that it doesn't matter either way. If the goods are going to be destroyed, whoever saves them deserves them.

	31-08-2005 19:40									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Are you saying the plastic wouldn't preserve the merchandise during "complete flooding"?

It would probably float away or something.

	31-08-2005 20:18									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I found it staggering that some people hold property rights higher than the survival of fellow human beings.

	31-08-2005 20:20									#118
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quote: Again I'd like to point out that it doesn't matter either way. If the goods are going to be destroyed, whoever saves them deserves them.

It just leads to a greater degree of chaos, that leads to even less of an ability to help.

	31-08-2005 20:34									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Yeah, this should be obvious, even in the case of gratuitous theft with no other justification. Say you have a shop that sells expensive computer components (RAM, video cards, etc.) Better for the stuff to be saved than for it to all go to waste, even if it goes to someone who doesn't deserve it.

That's some of the most rediculous logic I've ever seen. How is it better to save that type of stuff? It's not helping someone in their time of need (unless you're looking at it as a barter item), it's not benefiting the shopowner and it's not benefiting the manufacturer. It's pure, unjustifiable theft.

	31-08-2005 20:42									#120
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Situation A: You don't steal the stuff. It's destroyed.

Situation B: You do steal it. It's not destroyed.

Clearly B is better than A, because you haven't hurt anyone and you have benefitted someone (yourself).