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Bereta_Eder
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i remember crossing yugoslavia before it disindegrated. i was of small age back then but skopjie did strike me as poor even back then. as we moved to thenorth with the car the more better it became. in fact i remember zagreb as being the most beautiful capital of the three we saw. skopjie, belgrade and zagreb. belgarde seems too.... soviet. red bricks everywhere not good looking buildings anyway maybe we went through the industrial areas or something.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:32
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VetLegion, you do realize that the Greater Finland is mostly BS, right? There must have been some supporters of it back in the days, for the map is real, but again, you should know our history more to actually know what's going on.
There has been many 'tribal wars' or something like that a long time ago, when there were many expeditions to the regions, and there was fighting involved. Many places wished to join Finland, but mostly it didnt' happen since the commies where holding on to them. It was parts of what happened in the region in general long time ago, not so much Finland vs Russia. It was a complex thing.
However, the whole Greater Finland thing is mostly BS. USSR used it as our 'motive' to attack in Mainila, and used that as their propaganda that we wanted to take on the Rooskies in order to have that Greater Finland. However if oyu believe that, then you believe Stalin's propaganda.
So it's a difficult thing that map. I'm saying it's real, buit it's not THAT real. Difficult to explain.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:32
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We are racists but we are not expansionists. FACT.
Let's just say we have lost lots of our regions to what is now Russia, not just from the war. So.. and there's been more fighting than the winter war. SO we've always been kind of hot headed towards each other and we both have claims to regions, who is right, depends where you look at it but objectively I think no one is more wrong or right. Except of course the Karelia parts lost because of the aggressive communist invasion. THat's plain wrong. But as for other claims, I won't be a judge of it, everyone is right and wrong.
But the whole map thing, to understand its meaning, requires lots of knowledge on history that even I should refresh my memory on. Basically it's crap even though the map is real, and it has had some supporters back in the day, but the support has been marginal and it does not include taking over Russia, just some parts of it, small parts. The Greater Finland map does not include or refer to any world domination dreams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Finnish_wars
Here is where you get more info, tribal wars.
And in order to understand that truly, you would need to know our Civil War and basically what were things happening before that, how it came to it, and in order to understand that, you would need to read on the history before that.
It's all connected. Basically we have had sympathies for the victims of the commies and helped them.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:32
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Finland
You can see the map of what would be Greater Finland. Basically it was more 'ethnic' connection thing than anything else, getting some support from Karelians etc, areas to be annexed. But, it was more like an idea and goal for a group of people and not official thing.
Remind you, my last name is Karelian name, and my family from other side comes from there. I've been hearing lots of crap about how it's OK that 400 000 lost their homes there on snap of fingers, decided by Stalin, the mass murderer, including my family as well. So, to this day I have taken some personal insult of stupid hippies who always talk about stuff they don't have to bother with, but at least my grandpa etc remembers and knows what it truly means and meant. Now, I don't mind when people joke, but ignorance is no excuse.
And I like Rooskies and at the moment we are one of their better neighbours, but if there was a poll asking if we should take back what is rightfully ours in front of justice and God, I support any and every action, including nuclear warfare.
And fi you ask me, woudl I support this Greater Finland, no I wouldn't. It's a stupid idea. Has no merits or common sense in it really. Most kids today don't even know what this map is or have ever seen it. That's how 'big deal' it is. Personally, I don't know anyone who has ever talked about this subject in real life, or supports this even secretly. THere's like no movements for this. Consider the map something ... an element of historic nature.
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Dr Strangelove
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So what exactly is the status of Cyprus currently? I remember the Turkish invasion decades ago seperating Cyprus into a rather large occupied Turkish zone and a smaller Greek zone? I take it that the Greek zone has been granted entry into the EU? Did the Turks give back some of the land they took? Are they still occupying the Turkish zone? Are there plans to re-unify the country?
Which countries have been granted entry into the EU since 1991?
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Sir Og
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Lurking in Stara Zagora, Bulgaria
Jun 2001
time: 07:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
1. eh? what about the bulgarian komitazides as early as the 19th century advocating unification of the geographic region of macedonia with bulgaria? or the other fraction of theirs advocating first autonomy and then unification with bulgaria? (btw we are wrong when we call them slavs, they're basically mostly bulgarian)
and if tha's not recent enough for you what about the articles in their contritution in 1990's calling for "liberation of macedonia"?
they changed this after the embargo.
or do you think that just because they don't pose a military threat we should just let them be and just keep going to the beach?
nein. no skpjie with name of macedonia. and the US is not bordering Skpjie nor does it have veto in EU memberhsip or nato (well the latter it has) and it has committed to agree to whatever both countries agree even though of course the US plays their little games in the balkans too
a country's name is its soul and skpjie will not be permitted to have a macedonian soul not just because they dont have it anyway but because if they are let to keep faking it they can cause problems in the long run. of course someone far away can say donkeyheaded greeks and that's ok, he's not the one living here and isn't expected to know anything about it. |
Paiktis I get a feeling that you do not approve of unification between Macedonia and Bulgaria even though you agree that most Macedonians are actually Bulgarians. You should not fear such a union. We are not going to come after Greece for what it did in the Balkan wars  We are going to be in the EU soon and then there will be no borders between Bulgaria and Greece and it won't matter if Solun is in Bulgaria or Greece.
Last edited by Sir Og on 04-09-2005 at 13:59
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VetLegion
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Serbia is still very socialist in many things. Government is probably subsidising the gas.
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03-09-2005 19:51
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