06-09-2005 09:21									#391
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Actually, you have a point. What I mean is, you are explaining why almost half the country is stupid. Because they are believing in this garbage. Yes, a picture of a few buses from the air. Nevermind the logistical fallacies of that argument, which I already pointed out. Sorry Whoha, your propaganda doesn't work. Bush is the one who has sucked the most in this whole disaster. I'll quickly rehash the points about the buses... not enough buses to move 100,000 in the time allotted... no drivers, no fuel, no effective plan for picking up and dropping off, no destination... they couldn't even have done it if they had a month to plan and rehearse it... This little strawman about the buses doesn't even begin to excuse the massive failures of the Bush administration. FAILURE UPON FAILURE UPON FAILURE UPON FAILURE. And probably tens of thousands of people are dead because of Bush's failure. That doesn't even take into account the despicable acts they perpetrated. The photo ops... the grounding of the rescue operations... it's criminally negligent homicide. And if America had any sense of moral justice, Bush would be hanging from a noose along Pennsylvania Ave... and every victim of this hurricane who lost a loved one because of his incompetence would be allowed to throw rocks at his flailing corpse.

The Buses were fueled. To date 2 have been stolen, a Norta Bus and a School Bus, and both used to get people out. the rest in the school bus lot are leaking fuel into the water and it is visible in several of the pictures I have posted.

As to how many people could have been gotten out before hand, 400 Buses * 50 people * 72 Hours of concrete warning / 20 hours per trip out is a low ball of how many could get out before the Hurricane hit, it works out to 60 to 80 thousand. Jabbar Gibson managed to get out 100 people in his bus so those numbers can go up quite a bit.

And these buses would have also proved invaluable in the time after the Hurricane hit, but before the federal government could get additional buses in such as the 300 from Houston ISD that are coming in now.

	06-09-2005 09:32									#392
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is anyone here good at math?

what do you get when you add

monday morning quarterback + strawman

???

anyone?

oh yeah...

I think that equals

EXCUSES AND SHIFTING BLAME FROM COLOSSAL FAILURE OF FEDERAL RESPONSE

never learned that in school

	06-09-2005 10:04									#393
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The plan to use these buses to get people out predates the disaster by about 5 years, I'd hardly call that monday morning quarterbacking.

	06-09-2005 10:33									#394
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Texas is really stepping up to the plate by willing to take in so many disadvantaged people. Texas is taking on all of New Orleans' many intractable problems with a smile and without hesitation.

Texas

	06-09-2005 10:37									#395
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh It's a weird little alliance that's emerging between the Bush's and the Clinton's. Did anyone see Bill Clinton on Letterman a couple of weeks ago? He's apparently a regular at the senior Bush's and Barbara calls him "son". :gag:

He's a former President. He is accorded proper respect by people with decorum, which the, whatever else the senior Bushes maybe, are. Our current President has broken the tradition, being frequently disrectful to the previous Administration numerous times during his first administration, and most of those occassions turn out latter to be lies. Clinton and Bush senior are simple acting how former President's act, as elder statesmen.

	06-09-2005 10:57									#396
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by techumseh It's a weird little alliance that's emerging between the Bush's and the Clinton's. Did anyone see Bill Clinton on Letterman a couple of weeks ago? He's apparently a regular at the senior Bush's and Barbara calls him "son". :gag: He's a former President. He is accorded proper respect by people with decorum, which the, whatever else the senior Bushes maybe, are. Our current President has broken the tradition, being frequently disrectful to the previous Administration numerous times during his first administration, and most of those occassions turn out latter to be lies. Clinton and Bush senior are simple acting how former President's act, as elder statesmen.

I don't buy it. I think it's an attempt by the Clintons to cosy up to part of the Republican Party in order to broaden Hillary's base for her presidential run. I suits the Bush gangs agenda since Clinton's braunnosing blunts the ability of the Democrats to mount a clear attack on Dubya. In the end, I think it's futile opportunism on the part of the Clintons. Most Republicans would rather die than support Hillary.

	06-09-2005 10:59									#397
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Bill and Hillary

Hopefully Hillary can save the Democratic party from itself.

	06-09-2005 10:59									#398
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh I don't buy it. I think it's an attempt by the Clintons to cosy up to part of the Republican Party in order to broaden Hillary's base for her presidential run.

Well, that would be stupid given that the GOP is completely irrational when it comes to her. No amount of cozying would help, and Clinton is nothing if not the consumate politician. He'd know it was a waste of time.

	06-09-2005 11:00									#399
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Hopefully Hillary can save the Democratic party from itself.

How would that work?

	06-09-2005 11:09									#400
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If she gets the nomination in 2008, which she has the smarts and star power to do, she'll be able to tack the party back toward the electable center of public opinion and away from the leftist fringe that turns off so many moderate voters. She can put the DLC back in the driver's seat again, which would be good for the Dems given that the DLC can actually get their candidates elected.

	06-09-2005 11:11									#401
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If she tacks back towards the center, the left wing of the party won't vote. The DLC only got one candidate elected. It's other candidate lost, if you remember (though that had more to do with vote fraud).

	06-09-2005 11:21									#402
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She's been pretty good so far at keeping her positions vague enough to both appeal to moderates and not drive away the left. It remains to be seen whether she can keep up the act, especially under the bright lights of a Presidential campaign. It will definitely be difficult, considering the passion and idiocy that mixes freely in the Move-On wing of the Democratic party.

The real question is whether the lefties are willing to sit out and allow the Republicans to win again in order to oppose a Democratic candidate who isn't ideologically pure. The Dems appear to have the same dilemna in dealing with their extremist elements that the Republicans have in dealing with the Religious Right.

	06-09-2005 11:38									#403
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Well, that would be stupid given that the GOP is completely irrational when it comes to her. No amount of cozying would help, and Clinton is nothing if not the consumate politician. He'd know it was a waste of time.

No, something is going on. Clinton is WAY too cosy with the Bush's. This is not just the ex-president code of silence.

	06-09-2005 20:10									#404
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Bush is one of the worst, even by reactionary/market fundamentalist standards in presidential history. He is the gold standard of bad leadership and stupidity.


The fact that this mass murdering, insider trading, war criminal failed the victims of hurricane Katrina is no suprise to me.


But what about the nation that elects and empowers such a man, and his general system? A system that gives tax breaks to the super-wealthy and underfunds emergency operations?

I wonder, if we had an extensive coastal-wall system (like Japan) could all of this had been prevented in the first place?

Not that I would want to give the South such protection in any event, seeing as the red states already mooch off my tax dollars and do nothing but whine about it.

If those over-represented idiots want to drown, let them drown.

In any event, I'll never get tired of a bush bashing thread.

	06-09-2005 20:12									#405
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for the record... NOT my DL

	06-09-2005 21:04									#406
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quote: Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi Speaking of chemicals and stuff... I know the first priority is to pump out the city, and so we can't be all that discriminating, but has there been any commentary on what we're doing to the Mississippi and the gulf by dumping all this contaminated water into the region?

Ask and ye shall receive...or, I shall, at least.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9227493/

quote: Van Heerden and Rodney Mallett, communications director for the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, say there do not appear to be any choices other than to pump the water into Lake Pontchartrain or the Mississippi River, which flows into the Gulf of Mexico, a key maritime spawning ground. “I don’t see how we could treat all that water,” Mallett said. The result could be an second wave of disaster for southern Louisiana, said Harold Zeliger, a Florida-based chemical toxicologist and water quality consultant. “In effect, it’s going to kill everything in those waters,” he said.

	07-09-2005 01:43									#407
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Aftonbladet's Peter Kadhammar, walking the streets of New Orleans:

quote: I've seen many wars and conflicts, but I've never seen a place where corpses are left in the middle of people, day after day. Not anywhere have I seen it: not in Iraq, not in Bosnia, not in Croatia.

(Moved from the news thread)

	07-09-2005 01:44									#408
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FEMA head Brown has to go.

	07-09-2005 02:17									#409
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Doesn's sound like that guy left the press hotel while visiting those places.

	07-09-2005 02:35									#410
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed FEMA head Brown has to go.

...to jail.

At least if he's as incompetent as he seems to be.

	07-09-2005 03:18									#411
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quote: Originally posted by LiberalAtheist I wonder, if we had an extensive coastal-wall system (like Japan) could all of this had been prevented in the first place?

How do you build a wall in a swamp?

	07-09-2005 03:20									#412
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quote: Originally posted by LiberalAtheist In any event, I'll never get tired of a bush bashing thread.

Well I've already tired of you.

	07-09-2005 03:23									#413
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Exactly what part of my "demands" are unrealistic, Pat? quote: Originally posted by Guynemer ...still waiting...

...

	07-09-2005 03:36									#414
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Texas

Backing up your bull****
Texas

	07-09-2005 06:06									#415
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I posted this on the topped thread, but I feel it fits here as well.



On 26 August (prior to landfall), the White House issued the following statement:

quote: Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing. The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn. Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding. Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20050827-1.html

	07-09-2005 06:13									#416
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Here is an interesting link -- sorry if someone posted this earlier:

Federal Government Neglect?

	07-09-2005 06:38									#417
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Well, I think the previous two posts pretty much put the cabosh on any defense of the Feds. Not only this, but it makes them look even worse, since they tried to shift the blame to Gov. Blanco.

	07-09-2005 06:53									#418
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But Bush is too virtuous to ever play politics with dead Americans.






(wonders why others are looking strangely at me)

	07-09-2005 08:21									#419
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara How do you build a wall in a swamp?

They told me I was daft to build a castle in the swamp, but I did anyway. that sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. It also sank into the swamp. I built a third castle. That one burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. but the fourth one, that one is still standing!

	07-09-2005 08:31									#420
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha They told me I was daft to build a castle in the swamp, but I did anyway. that sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. It also sank into the swamp. I built a third castle. That one burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. but the fourth one, that one is still standing!