08-09-2005 11:57									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Two weeks does not the end of the world make.

QFT

	08-09-2005 12:56									#32
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel This is bad news. If they're done early, then give them an extra month of debugging to make it even more solid. If this is just a moneygrab by the publisher......disaster looms....

Exactly my thought. I have mixed feelings about the earlier release.

	08-09-2005 13:15									#33
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I've had the impression that this game has been pretty far in it's development, but so far??? That was a surprise. We better cross our fingers.

	08-09-2005 13:55									#34
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so we'll just have one more patch

	08-09-2005 13:59									#35
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Disarming logic.

Indeed, who's unhappy with the earlier release, is free not to buy it until the first patch. If he has the patience to sit it out, that is.

	08-09-2005 14:01									#36
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel This is bad news. If they're done early, then give them an extra month of debugging to make it even more solid. If this is just a moneygrab by the publisher......disaster looms....

I agree. They're doing this 'cause of TT's dismal 3Q results.

We all remember C3C:

-Oops the AI armies are broken
-Oops the Scientific Golden Age is broken
-Oops double gold bug
-Oops tha barbarians are broken
-Woops the ....

And there's no v.1.23 patch for the above. (well the double gold bug was fixed IIRC)

	08-09-2005 14:01									#37
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It's good news.
It means the game is finished.
They would never move the games 2 weeks earlier for financial reasons since that would hardly give any financial benefits anyway. (half a year earlier would)

If dates are pushed back, that means that things are wrong and they're working on it. In the end that means that you can never be sure that the game will be finished when it's released.

There's an agreement between TTI and Firaxis, TTI can't simply say: "we want it two weeks earlier".
This just means that Firaxis thinks it's finished.

Which means that the game if finished when the developper thinks it's finished which is really really good.

Oh, and of course it's even better that we get the game earlier!

	08-09-2005 14:07									#38
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If you think about it a game usually goes gold two-four weeks before it's released so this probably more or less just changes amount of time the game will be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Sounds to me like they want to tie up all loose ends at the end of the quarter and start the new one as strong as possible.

	08-09-2005 14:17									#39
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Don't take me wrong, I love the game it's just that I'd rather wait more for it to be ready, that's all.

The bad taste of C3C is still in my mouth...

I've already preordered the game at Amazon UK so I won't be waiting for any patches. but my experience is that when they release things ahead of schedule it's always a money issue and the games are just not ready.

Well anyway it's only two weeks ahead, so hopefully it won't be such a big deal after all. Fingers crossed.

	08-09-2005 14:23									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Drakan The bad taste of C3C is still in my mouth...

Spit it out. That's what I did, and I can assure you, that I feel much better now.

	08-09-2005 14:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Drakan Don't take me wrong, I love the game it's just that I'd rather wait more for it to be ready, that's all. The bad taste of C3C is still in my mouth... (...) but my experience is that when they release things ahead of schedule it's always a money issue and the games are just not ready.

My same opinion.

quote: Originally posted by Drakan Well anyway it's only two weeks ahead, so hopefully it won't be such a big deal after all. Fingers crossed.

A couple of weeks can be plenty of time (as large as a whole patch, as MarkG suggested early).
Remember that Murphy Law?

quote: If it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done.

quote: Originally posted by Yin26 Civ 4 was released last June to a limited audience in the Yap Islands. As soon as they develop the Trireme, I'm sure they'll send out the review boats.

Well, you are a more advanced Civ. Load an explorer or a scout on your trasport, escort it with enough battlecruiser and destroyer and contact them.
Estabilish an embassy, then put your spy at work!

	08-09-2005 15:35									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Wise Ass If you think about it a game usually goes gold two-four weeks before it's released so this probably more or less just changes amount of time the game will be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Sounds to me like they want to tie up all loose ends at the end of the quarter and start the new one as strong as possible.

I gota agree with you

with the company I work for its all about getting good quarter results at what ever expense it needs to be


Pirates was a new game, look how long it took to decide it needed a patch...the other bad news

	08-09-2005 15:54									#43
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meanwhile we havent had any kind of news of civ4 hitting beta stage so we're now going to go from (late) alpha to gold in a month? i tend to think it's just an accountant thing: "we're going to have some sales in november but we'll count them for october, ok?"

	08-09-2005 16:08									#44
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Good point.

Hey, what does everyone here think of paying $50 to be part of the beta test?

Because that is what is going to happen if they release this game in October. Mid-November is understandable. Late November would be fabulous, the best we could hope for.

I really hope that TT are the ones pushing for this, because if it is the designers...they had better get those first patches absolutely perfect...

	08-09-2005 16:25									#45
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quote: because if it is the designers

you're the designer. you've been working on the project for 3 years now. you find yourself ahead of schedule (no actual info that civ4 is ahead of schedule btw)

would you ever go to your publisher and say "it's done! take it"?

i'd be back on my pc doing a bit more polishing.....

	08-09-2005 16:45									#46
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...... or trying to break it so all unexpected bugs are ironed out too.

Dale

	08-09-2005 16:50									#47
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all bugs are unexpected

	08-09-2005 17:01									#48
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I am a developper and I frequently do say that the product I'm working on is finished before due date.
For sure since the cIV people most obviously are already having plans for the first expansion they want to start working on.

If it's finished, it's finished.
At a certain moment you stop making changes anyway to prevent the occurance of new bugs.

	08-09-2005 17:09									#49
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MarkG in addition to the in-house testers, aren't there something like 100 beta testers taken from the public including some members of the 'poly forums?

	08-09-2005 17:32									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro MarkG in addition to the in-house testers, aren't there something like 100 beta testers taken from the public including some members of the 'poly forums?

If anyone would know that, Markos would. I'm sure that he gets some perks as owner of this site. j/k.

	08-09-2005 17:36									#51
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I am a developper and I frequently do say that the product I'm working on is finished before due date.

how many multi-million 3-years-long projects have you worked on, finished them earlier than schedule and went to deliver it?

	08-09-2005 17:40									#52
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel If anyone would know that, Markos would. I'm sure that he gets some perks as owner of this site. j/k.

i know soren's favorite coffee flavor!

and yes, it's been noted a couple of times that there is a testing group of civers....

	08-09-2005 17:44									#53
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I hear Coracle and Libertarian are among them.

	08-09-2005 18:21									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG how many multi-million 3-years-long projects have you worked on, finished them earlier than schedule and went to deliver it?

I've been on one and we didn't finish it within the actual time schedule
And no change in hell that we would have let the producer have launched it before the actual due date if it wouldn't have been finished.

It's always like: It must be finished november 1st, then it's finished november 10th. But if the producer comes and asks: " Can it be launched october 15th" while it's not finished, we say: "No, our contract says we have untill november 1st"

if it's finished, we have no problem with that.

	08-09-2005 18:27									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Indeed, who's unhappy with the earlier release, is free not to buy it until the first patch. If he has the patience to sit it out, that is.

Considering I would be buying the game just so I can mod it into a SMAC2, then yeah, I can wait. One of the reasons I was originally going to hold off buying the game immediately was because, as the patches roll out, why they may effect areas that that the cIV---> SMACX mod team had already worked on, meaning we'd have to go back and redo those same code modules again ( or at the very least ensure that the patch hadn't effected those modules already worked on.....).


D

	08-09-2005 18:39									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Hey, what does everyone here think of paying $50 to be part of the beta test?

But I'll not pay more than $80!!!


I know, I'm desperate!

	08-09-2005 18:46									#57
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quote: so we'll just have one more patch

as with darsnan,im only getting it to mod. wouldnt fork over .01$ to beta test

	08-09-2005 18:57									#58
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what was the last game you didnt patch?

	08-09-2005 19:18									#59
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but have more? havnt you played games that you had to get patches just to play? IIRC there was one that needed a 40 meg patch even! thats just

i returned civ3 when i bought it. it didnt have mp,IE unfinished.and when ptw came out,it didnt even run out of the box. only conquests worked

	08-09-2005 19:27									#60
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG what was the last game you didnt patch?

I think the point I was trying to make was that if a person was buying the game for the ability to mod it, then it makes even less sense now to immediately buy the game (what with the higher likelihood of another patch coming out), as patches are gonna play bloody heck on a mod'ers work in progress.


D