10-09-2005 12:22									#1
	MY-2187 Planning & Execution Thread Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Looks like I can be a bit more involved this turn (but still won't play it as the laptop keyboard isn't the best for troop movement)

I'm in a Hotel for the next 3 days with wireless high speed access ( !!! ) and the turn will come during that time

	11-09-2005 00:44									#2
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One of the things that we should do is to "persuade" Zak to declare Vendetta on the Angels.

That way we can gift him all our techs without the fear of him selling/trading any to the 3 other teams, all of whom he would then be in Vendetta with.

We might get PSA thus in 2 turns (without the risk of not getting that one from the Angels thru a probe action)

	11-09-2005 05:24									#3
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I was wondering if you have the AI down to submissive, would they ALWAYS listen to you for the rest of the game?

	11-09-2005 05:26									#4
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Thanks for starting the thread Googlie.


Submissives won't always give you their bases if you demand them, and they'll also be pissed off if you use planet busters. But for the rest they do about everything you say AFAIK.

	11-09-2005 14:12									#5
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We'll get Centauri Empathy this turn.
Do we trade Cyberethics for Bio-engineering with Morgan? (Yes)
Then, if you say we'll get PSA in 2 turns, that means our last AA will wait till then?
He'd better give us something exceptional to have waited this long.


PSA in 2 turns means we can still have a shot at the HSA. We must prepare to instabuild.
- Where?
- Have we got enough crawlers?
- Do we have to stall the instabuild of the forest at AU?

	12-09-2005 05:18									#6
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I got the turn. I post first impressions and propositions quickly (2:AM and I'm not on holidays! )

-- Kelp expanded 2x around Vladivostok! Do we start a seaformer to take opportunity? (5 seatiles, 4 alredy kelped)
-- Forest expanded around Fort Sup (under our defungussing formers!)
-- and around Minas Tirith.

-- AU: propose change worker from fungus (1-0-0) to rainy (2-1-0). Shall we instabuild the forest this turn? (yes)
-- TH: propose change worker from condensor (4-1-0) to forest (2-2-1). It doesn't hamper popboom.
-- ARC: put finished crawler on a mine and start another?
-- Instabuild Creche at Kel Harbor with B-112 crawler, and use own crawler for 2 mins (forest), start another (preparing for a farm soon)?

Lots of formers to move, I'll see that in details tomorrow.
Maniac, if you don't have the time to move everything, the Ministry of Infrastructure can assume former-moves (but I'd rather let you instabuild) while you concentrate on military units.

Last thing: I didn't see any tech message and Yang is now researching Bioadaptive Resonance. Did I miss something?

I go to bed!

	12-09-2005 06:52									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac -- Kelp expanded 2x around Vladivostok! Do we start a seaformer to take opportunity? (5 seatiles, 4 alredy kelped)

Sounds good to me.

quote: -- Forest around Minas Tirith.

I also got the message, but I can't see any new forest.

quote: -- AU: propose change worker from fungus (1-0-0) to rainy (2-1-0). Shall we instabuild the forest this turn? (yes)

In my save AU isn't working any fungus. I assume you got a fungal bloom and I didn't.

quote: -- TH: propose change worker from condensor (4-1-0) to forest (2-2-1). It doesn't hamper popboom.

It's the AI who always puts the newly popboomed citizen on that condenser farm.

quote: -- ARC: put finished crawler on a mine and start another? -- Instabuild Creche at Kel Harbor with B-112 crawler, and use own crawler for 2 mins (forest), start another (preparing for a farm soon)?

IIRC you spoke of a creche combined with some nutrient crawling in ARC earlier. Wouldn't that be more profitable?

quote: Last thing: I didn't see any tech message and Yang is now researching Bioadaptive Resonance. Did I miss something?

I checked the F2 info screen. Centauri Empathy is in our tech list, so apparently we don't get a message when receiving a tech through the Datalinks.

Btw, check out Mendelev College. Am I glad we quickly signed a peace with the Hive.

	12-09-2005 07:00									#8
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I noticed our units in Defiance Freehold and Fort Sol have been activated out of "L" status. So the Angels have been reconning those bases just like we were doing with Mart Pact.

Anyway, I'll start the war with the Angels first, so we have maximal time to discuss our actions.

	12-09-2005 07:13									#9
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Okay... I moved the SCC Njord next to Mart Pact first to check out their defenses. They're on to us. Mart Pact is now defended with among other stuff two F-6s and a AAA plasma garrison.

We have four B-6s in range of Mart Pact. The chances against those three good Angel defenders are more or less 50-50 per battle I think, so we'd only be allowed to lose one B-6: two other battles would definitely have to succeed. That more or less gives us a 25% chance on success.


One option of course would be to sacrifice two B-4s and use them to lure out the F-6s. Then the B-6s could fly in freely (though they could be toasted the turn after by other Angel F-6s of course... and we have no F-6s ourselves in immediate range).

Another option could be to change target to Timberland, hopefully less defended. We could send the Disco Volante and the trannie with rovers there on an infiltration mission. With likely loss of the taskforce of course after performing their mission.

Or we could of course just continue with the conference negotiations, and delay or forget about an attack.

The question is basically how much are we willing to give for Angel infiltration I guess.

	12-09-2005 07:18									#10
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Oh btw, I think this might be ACDG-related:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=138495

Cataphract is an Angel.

Here's a save with only the Njord moved, so you can check out Mart Pact yourselves.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2187martpact.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	12-09-2005 11:06									#11
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Just a quick thought, how much would it cost to upgrade those B-6 to B-8 ?

	12-09-2005 13:57									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Just a quick thought, how much would it cost to upgrade those B-6 to B-8 ?

Great idea!

I would formulate it just a tad different: If we have the cash, let us upgrade the necessary equipment, and show the Angels what toys we have.

	12-09-2005 15:59									#13
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Sorry to play your little Fabius Cunctator here but perhaps some alternative thinking:

1) I don't really know how works air defence with interceptors. But I wouldn't want us to lose valuable planes ===> Why not wait a few turns while we build B-1 (very low cost) for the sole purpose of luring their air defences (a sacrifice) before our real bombers attack? A B-1 wouldn't be expensive. 2 would do the jobs.

2) I agree: no half-measures! If we attack, better to have all planes at 8.

3) Do we really need to attack? What's the goal: to have the Angels infiltrated. There is only one probe in MartPact and there is a rocky-moist tile near. We could land 3 probes one after the other, kill theirs, infiltrate and disappear without having to engage in vendetta with them and the Gaians.

4) The Cataphract message seems to indicate that the Angels don't know whether we have Aerospace complexes or not, so we are not infiltrated.
That said, we'd better build some in the threatened cities, since it appears the current threat would come from drop-probes.

	12-09-2005 21:08									#14
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Some stuff done.

• Retired or made obsolete a bunch of naval and air unit design. If we need any, we can now create new designs with deep radar added to it without extra cost.
  
• VIJ scout rover proceeds to Iaci Base.
  
• No worm hunting success near Ironholm.
  
• Probe team keeps escorting the Uni CP.
  
• The IoD boldly continues to the unknown seas.
  
  
• Road finished near VV.
  
• Tomcats-SC2-3, SCW2 & GH1 build road.
  
• Tomcat-MT2 starts forest.
  
• GH sea former plants kelp near MT - worker moved to it.
  
• Tomcat-GH1 proceeds to its destination to plant forest.
  
• Forest planted near FB.
  
• Condenser and forest finished near MSN.
  
• 
  
  
• 2NS: cryptei finished. Production set to a CDF to free up the B-4 there.
  
• New crawlers started in ARC, B112, KH, FL, IH.
  
• Former production in AU.
  
• Fort Liberty has popboomed to size nine, so no need to keep a nutrient surplus.
  
• Some worker shuffling in FB, GH, SC2, SC1.
  
• Sea former and hybrid forest hurried in respectively VV & AU.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2187mid.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	12-09-2005 22:58									#15
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We can use the Steppenwolves and the R-112 (conveniently within range on their transport) to clear away the 1-<3> unit and two additional defenders. The two F-6:s still present significant problems though. But I have an idea about that as well. We can upgrade the Njord and even our coastguard cruiser to missile or chaos (maybe even impact) and bombard the base. Planes take a lot of damage that way. If we get them down to 50% we can easily take them out, and then the rest of the defenders will be a peace of cake.

	12-09-2005 23:07									#16
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We also have the Janissaries on that transport who are capable of taking out a defender before disbanding itself, for what it's worth. A much more interesting use of this unit is to capture and raze the base after it has been bombed down to size 1 and infiltrated

Of course, this is all a strictly defensive action against the Angel military build up near our shoreline, following their recent aggressive probe actions and outrageous economic frauds.

EDIT 2: The Jans could also be upgraded to amph. If we upgrade them to 8~ (100ec!) we might be able to take out the 1-<3> with an mp left. With the remaining 5mp from the rovers on that transport we can take out all defenders, including the F-6:s. Softening the 1-<3> up by bombing it with an upgraded Njord also better our chances of retaining that extra mp somewhat. I'm not sure I like this alternative though since it leaves the base intact.

EDIT 3: The probe team on the transport can also be used to steal a tech from that base after we infiltrate.

EDIT: Turnchat anyone? I am available for the next several hours.

Last edited by Snoddasmannen on 12-09-2005 at 23:25

	12-09-2005 23:37									#17
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Man I am having a blast looking at this I just had another idea.

We might have some B-6'es to spare after the attacks. We can use these to attack Kahlua Probing! Or even the suburbs of Enigma Machine, if they happen to have a former or something out there.

My current recommendation:

• Upgrade the Jans to 8~
  
• Attack Mart Pact with land units from transport, taking out 5 or 6 defenders.
  
• If a defender remains, take it out with a B-6, possibly after bombing with the Njord. All the probe teams in the base will be destroyed.
  
• Infiltrate with the Disco Volante, steal tech with the probe team on board.
  
• Attack the rest of Heaven with remaining forces.
  
• Next turn : Destroy Mart Pact
  

	12-09-2005 23:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, check out Mendelev College. Am I glad we quickly signed a peace with the Hive.

Ok: command center open for a few hours in case of chat-meeting of the Junta. Just make a beep!

	13-09-2005 00:28									#19
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Me and Vishniac are there now, come join us
http://googlie2.tripod.com/thespart...ation/id14.html

	13-09-2005 04:16									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac 1) I don't really know how works air defence with interceptors. But I wouldn't want us to lose valuable planes ===> Why not wait a few turns while we build B-1 (very low cost) for the sole purpose of luring their air defences (a sacrifice) before our real bombers attack? A B-1 wouldn't be expensive. 2 would do the jobs.

That's what the B-4s are for. They cost two mineral rows, the same as a B-1 would cost.

quote: There is only one probe in MartPact and there is a rocky-moist tile near.

There are three, and with higher morale than our probes.


Some brilliant ideas Snoddasmannen.

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen Of course, this is all a strictly defensive action against the Angel military build up near our shoreline, following their recent aggressive probe actions and outrageous economic frauds.

Anyway, should we go ahead and ask Zakharov to break relations with the Angels (and give him all our tech - let's not forget!)?

	13-09-2005 04:24									#21
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I fear we have 15 credits too short to upgrade both the Njord and Janissaries to chaos. But some units still have to go wormhunting, so who knows we're lucky.

	13-09-2005 04:30									#22
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The SCC Invincible has caught a strange fish while sailing to the fungus to the south.

Attachment: angelprobe.jpg
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

	13-09-2005 05:17									#23
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• SCC Invincible and SCC Iaci did some unsuccesful IoD hunting.
  
• FS F-8 flies south.
  
• Trannie returns from Hive invasion.
  
  
• New SC2-4 helps plant a forest to the north.
  
• AU & IH crawlers moved to unused squares for harvesting.
  
• Stack of three formers moves two SW to plant a forest within the AU base radius.
  
• Formers between IH & FL start some roads.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2187mid2.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	13-09-2005 10:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I fear we have 15 credits too short to upgrade both the Njord and Janissaries to chaos. But some units still have to go wormhunting, so who knows we're lucky.

Upgrading the Njord is not critical, and probably a bit overpriced. Maybe we should only do it if we are left with one defender who happens to be an F-6 and we need to take it out with a noodle.

Shall we go ahead with the attack today?

One hint is to place the trannie on 12,68 instead of where the Njord is now. That way, we can reach Timberland next turn Also we'll want a B-n or two to cover it so it doesn't get sunk by Angel noodles (it won't have that luxury next turn if we decide to go after Timberland).

	13-09-2005 11:03									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac There are still some formers (vishniac?) and stuff that needs to be moved

I'll be back tonight. Expect former propositions around 16h30!

EDITED!

	13-09-2005 19:29									#26
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Formers and crawlers moves:
(Proposed. I can do it if you want before or after your military moves)

- Stack of 3 formers at Fort Buster. Move to fungus tile 55,15
- Former at GH (58,22). Start forest.
- Stack 2 formers at 2NS. Move towards 64,30 (or build a sensor at 66,30? The base is close to Yang and is our closest to Gaians I think).
- Former at Messena. Move to 55,7
- Former on farm tile at Fort Sup. Replace farm with forest.

- Crawler at Fort Liberty. Move to forest 87,21 and convoy 2 mins (tile not needed by TH)
- crawler at ARC. Move to one of the two mines and convoy 4 mins.

	13-09-2005 20:20									#27
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I propose a turn chat today, can you attend Maniac?

	13-09-2005 20:32									#28
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yes

	13-09-2005 21:08									#29
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Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2187attack.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	13-09-2005 21:24									#30
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We have completed an infiltration of the Angels. They are not extremely impressive in strength and they will have a very limited opportunity to counter-attack our infiltration force. They have two F-6 within striking range in base and one B-6 out on a mission which could attack, so stacking three units is enough to ensure the safety of our ground forces. Well, there is one F-6 also unaccounted for.

You can read the transcript from the attack here:

http://www2.onyx.nu/pb/chatter/chat...nfiltration.txt