17-09-2005 21:30									#1
	Question about the "Blitz" Get a bigger avatar today!

Just exactly what was the problem with Nemo's Blitz? I was thinking it was the AI stacking bombers outside of London which resulted in them being cut down by the RAF. If that was the problem would it be solved by converted the map to stackable terrain?

P.S. Anyone here anything on Red Front ToT.

	17-09-2005 22:00									#2
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Hmmm.... both good questions. For the longest time I had just assumed that the AI issues with the BOB were unsolvable. I hope after all these years we can say there's a light at the end of the tunnel for the great unfinished project of our time.

I'm also curious whats happened with Red Front. I still sure that it will be the surefire hit of the year when released .

	17-09-2005 23:58									#3
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Nemo didn't complete Blitz because the AI stacked me109s outside brit cities reay to be slaughtered. You can get round this by using stackable terrain as you say Jimmy.

RF ToT graphics are ready more or less. I have a few things to tweak. Icons and sounds? Not sure of the status of these.

	18-09-2005 00:00									#4
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I think that you may have hit the nail on the head with

quote: Originally posted Jimmywax Just exactly what was the problem with Nemo's Blitz? I was thinking it was the AI stacking bombers outside of London which resulted in them being cut down by the RAF. If that was the problem would it be solved by converted the map to stackable terrain? P.S. Anyone here anything on Red Front ToT.

One of the weaknesses of CIV2 is that AI units are immobile during the turn in which they appear. In both RF 1.4 and 1.5, this allows players to easily destroy any German units spawned for the attack on Stalingrad and for the Zitadelle offensive in '43. IMO, stackable terrain would help to overcome this problem provided that players are unable to pillage such terrain (fortresses). I think that this can be achieved by removing the appropriate pillage option.

With aircraft, there may be the added complication that aircraft may not attack the desired target. In my current playtest of Empire of the Rising Sun, the American units for the Doolittle raid are spawned near Tokyo but do not attack the city, even if the Japanese do nothing. Stackable terrain appears to play no role in this. I suspect that this type of difficulty may have contributed to Captain Nemo abandoning the Blitz project.

The latest on RF is that there is interest but the whole thing is up in the air to some extent.

In the Skill needed. Please apply.... thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=138667

there has been some discussion of converting RF 1.4 to TOT.


In the Red Front for ToT thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...70&pagenumber=6

there are ongoing discussions about continuing the project. IMO, the one very encouraging factor is that Boco has volunteered to develop the redux after he finishes his current projects.

Personally, I wish that someone who has played RF 1.4 would take a shot at playing RF 1.5. I seem to be the only one who has owned up to playing this rather challenging scen. It would be extremely helpful to get some other opinions on its good and bad points before work begins on the redux.

EDIT: Crossed post with fairline. That's what I get for being so long-winded.

	18-09-2005 02:54									#5
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i think another one of the problems was with the way that nemo wanted the scenario to play, basicly when he wanted the AI to do a certain thing that was needed for the scenario, the AI did the exact opposite,
edit: i found this in the red front ToT thread,
posted by captain nemo on 06-11-2004 21:33

quote: The AI was just too stupid. In the first phases of the Battle he (the AI) would pile Luftwaffe Bombers in stacks of 30-40 and allow a single RAF Fighter to kill them all. Later in the scenario as a new "phase" opened up (War declared against a Civ called "British civilians") the Luftwaffe would just bypass all the major civilian objectives in London and keep going after fighter bases in Northern England. I could not get them to attack the London landmarks as the scenario was intended to do (This was the trigger for operation Sealowe, which obviously never happened). If anyone wants to see if they can fix it, I still have all the files and would gladly pass them to anyone interested.

	18-09-2005 04:29									#6
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So how do you increase a targets value? I remember reading one time that you could make the AI target certain units.

	18-09-2005 06:46									#7
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Chance of success, relative unit costs. In my hands it's been a lot of trial and error.

	18-09-2005 13:17									#8
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Boco is right.

In Red Front, German air and naval units will not make suicidal attacks on single or stacked Soviet naval units in a Soviet minefield (A=12, D=30) unless the number of units or their total value (I can't tell which is the determining factor) is greater than some threshold number. Ground units on transports count towards the total.

Once the threshold value has been exceeded, German air and surface naval units (destroyers, cruisers, battleships) attack at every opportunity. U-boats attack only very rarely but they definitely make a beeline for such Soviet stacks and then hang around near the Soviet stack.

	18-09-2005 15:33									#9
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Let us pull our resources together and get Red Front completed, guys!

I would make a fine project to end the year on!

Who wants to bump the thread?

	19-09-2005 03:04									#10
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Once Red Front is done, the we can choose betwen this and second front to play with,

	19-09-2005 04:59									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Its obvious that this forum has the capability to update each and every classic produced over the last nine years of Civ II by the internet community. I just hope we can hold on the momentum that seems to be building now and put it to good use.