10-08-2001 05:40									#1
	Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

With the launch of Civ3.com and the announcement of the 16 civs we can now try to accumulate all available information on the issue of who the leaders of these 16 civs are. I am going on the assumption that there is but 1 leader for each Civ, as the Civ of the week article would lead me to believe. (Hammurabi is the lone Babylonian leader mentioned)
Now, let us see here.....
The Americans- Abe Lincoln 100%(Old magazine screenshots)
The Aztecs Montezuma 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600)
The Babylonians Hammurabi 100% (civ of week section at civ3.com)
The Chinese Mao Zedong? illegible (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Egyptians Cleopatra 75%(http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600) Note, this leader is only 75% because the picture looks NOTHING like Cleopatra? Perhaps a designer renamed a Ramsses or someone of the like?
The English Elizabeth I 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600)
The French Joan of Arc 100% (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Germans illegible...Hidenburg maybe?
(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Greeks Alexander the Great 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Indians Ghandi 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Iroquois unknown
The Japanese unknown, Tokugawa? (http://apolyton.net/forums/attachme...=&postid=392605)
The Persians Unknown
The Romans Julius Caesar 100% (old magazine screenshots)
The Russians Catherine the Great? Unknown(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeat...=&postid=404268[/url])
The Zulus unknown

Note, at the following link http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600
a leader by the name of Brother Bluto appears, can anyone fill me on on what civilization this man is from? Persia I'm guessing, but if anyone can clarify it would be great. (Edit: It turns out the name bluto was pun of sorts by some of the Firaxis staff)

Last edited by monkspider on 10-08-2001 at 06:00

	10-08-2001 05:41									#2
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The Chinese leader is obviously Mao, unless "Mao's clone" counts.

	10-08-2001 05:42									#3
	Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by monkspider Note, at the following link http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600 a leader by the name of Brother Bluto appears, can anyone fill me on on what civilization this man is from? Persia I'm guessing, but if anyone can clarify it would be great.

Just testing the custom civ name functionality out there... fans of classic American comedy films should immediately pick up on the joke...

Dan

	10-08-2001 05:51									#4
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LOL thanks for the reply Dan, here I was thinking you were using some obsecure, villianous leader that obviously proved the inspiration for Popeye's notorious villain!

	10-08-2001 05:52									#5
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Can anyone else confirm that it is, indeed Mao? And if so, Mao Tse Tung or Mao Zedong?

	10-08-2001 05:55									#6
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Can anyone else confirm that it is, indeed Mao? And if so, Mao Tse Tung or Mao Zedong?

Spirited debate during our marathon quest leaned us towards Mao Zedong

	10-08-2001 05:58									#7
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I believe Mao Tse Tung and Mao Zedong is the same person. It's just his name is spelled a different way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

	10-08-2001 06:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins I believe Mao Tse Tung and Mao Zedong is the same person. It's just his name is spelled a different way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. The spirited debate was about the correct spelling of his name His identity was decided early on.

	10-08-2001 06:03									#9
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We are now left with an interesting conjecture, can anyone here identify the man HERE (http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg) who is indentified as "Brother Bluto"?

	10-08-2001 06:06									#10
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The Americans- Abe Lincoln 100%(http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/screenshots/abe-s.jpg)
The Aztecs Montezuma 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600)
The Babylonians Hammurabi 100% (civ of week section at civ3.com)
The Chinese Mao 100%(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Egyptians Cleopatra 75%(http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600) Note, this leader is only 75% because the picture looks NOTHING like Cleopatra. Perhaps a designer renamed a Ramsses or someone of the like?
The English Elizabeth I 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600, http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/screenshots/liz-s.jpg)
The French Joan of Arc 100% (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Germans illegible...Hidenburg? Bismarck? Unknown
(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Greeks Alexander the Great 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Indians Ghandi 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Iroquois Hiawatha 100%(http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/scr.../Hi_angry-s.jpg)
The Japanese unknown, Tokugawa? (http://apolyton.net/forums/attachme...=&postid=392605)
The Persians Unknown
The Romans Julius Caesar 100% (old magazine screenshots)
The Russians Catherine the Great? Unknown(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeat...=&postid=404268[/url])
The Zulus unknown

If anyone can provide links for some of the leaders which are simply listed as "(old magazine screenshots)", please do.

Last edited by monkspider on 10-08-2001 at 06:18

	10-08-2001 06:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider We are now left with an interesting conjecture, can anyone here identify the man HERE (http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg) who is indentified as "Brother Bluto"?

it's a test of the custom name feature

	10-08-2001 06:14									#12
	Re: Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Just testing the custom civ name functionality out there... fans of classic American comedy films should immediately pick up on the joke... Dan

TOGA! TOGA!

	10-08-2001 06:21									#13
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Mark,
I was trying to ask if anyone could identify who the picture of the man is, who is called "brother bluto" in that picture. Sorry for being unclear
As far as i know, it is a picture we have never seen before. The only country i can reasonably see it being, by process of elimination, is someone from Persia.

	10-08-2001 06:24									#14
	Re: Re: Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Warm Beer TOGA! TOGA!

Ding ding ding... someone give Warm Beer a cookie!


Dan

	10-08-2001 06:25									#15
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Mark, I was trying to ask if anyone could identify who the picture of the man is, who is called "brother bluto" in that picture. Sorry for being unclear

oh, i suppose it's the default picture of Julius Caesar

	10-08-2001 07:00									#16
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Mmmmm, cookies N beer.

It seems there are two pictures of "brother bluto..." on the Civ selection screen and on the diplo screen:

one we can assume is Caesar:
http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg

But who is this guy?...
http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg

The Start Up screen makes me wonder if civs are tied to color (ala civ II) after all. The screen makes it seem like the Custom "delta house" civ, modeled after the Romans and the Egyptian civilzation can co-exist. The question remains, is it possible for say, Japan and France to be in the same game. At least in a single player game.

	10-08-2001 07:42									#17
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exactly my point beer, this guy *MUST* be from Persia, but who is he??

	10-08-2001 11:27									#18
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What is up with the pictures of Cleopotra? My history might be a little off but wasn't she at least part European?

Isn't the skin a little dark for Cleopatra or is just that all movies and pictures in the states are of Eurocentric views of civilization?

	10-08-2001 12:27									#19
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Tniem: I agree with you as far as the whole Cleopatra thing....she was Greek by descendency (is that even a word?!?!) oh wait, ancestry.

Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...3712#post413712

That's the "Just the facts ma'am" thread...Alexander01 made the observation.

	10-08-2001 13:24									#20
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The Cleopatra thing is open to debate. How could she rule Egypt if she's not from a royal line? That makes her African.

	10-08-2001 13:47									#21
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When Alexander the Great conquered Egypt (among other lands) he died with out an heir. Hence his kingdom was divided between three generals, among whom was Ptolemy- he got Eqypt. Cleopatra is a decenant of Ptolemy. Her royal line is derived from the Macedonian conqueror.

very brief explanation...

[edit-misspelled Egypt... too many cold beers, methinks]

Last edited by Warm Beer on 10-08-2001 at 13:54

	10-08-2001 13:47									#22
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edited: what WB said

	10-08-2001 14:05									#23
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As an artistic interpretation, it's not completely improbable. There is a certain amount of evidence that she was at least 1/4 black. If you notice the woman pictured has clear caucasian features- note the nose, for instance. Plus, it's sunny in North Africa. The combination of 1/4 african descent, dark mediterranean features and a hefty spot at the beach each day could certainly produce an effect like this.

Plus, she's been considered Black or Mulatto in popular lore (which, after all, is what counts) at least since Shakespeare.

	10-08-2001 16:31									#24
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Now... Waaaiit a minute.
Why do you assume that the guy labelled Brother Bluto is the image for the male Persian? Could be Russian male. If it is Persian, then my bet would be Xerxes, but that ain't no fact.
As for German leader, looks like they have it being Bismarck von Otto (should be Otto von Bismarck)

	10-08-2001 16:33									#25
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Er, that's exactly the same guy as in the other Caesar pic. Except he is in his "renaissance" appearance. See separate thread.

	11-08-2001 00:52									#26
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DITCH MAO!

They don't have Stalin representing the Russians, nor Hitler representing the Germans. This is my one peeve for the game. If there's no way to change the Mao animated leader, I'll delete the Chinese from the game. And that's actually my favorite civ.

B

	11-08-2001 01:07									#27
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quote: Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...

I agree. The garb reminded me of Renaissance Italy a great deal, and the two faces look the same (try a side-by-side comparison).

In addition, they both have the same name, and one with "classical" connotations at that.

	11-08-2001 07:42									#28
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Xerxes would not look like "Brother Bluto." Persians (at least Achaemenid Persians [Cyrus, Darius, Xerxes, etc.] are portrayed on their monuments with mustaches and square like beards. The crown is similiar in shape to Hammurabi's but white, with vertical, triangular obtrusions on the sides instead of the rounded horizontal ones on Babylon's crown.

Iroquois leader = Hiawatha 100% (saw it in an article)

Japanese leader = Tokugawa Ieyasu 95% (see civs included thread for details and arguments for this conclusion)

Egyptians are almost definitely Cleopatra. Sorry. Yes, she probably was a mixed breed. The original Greek blood went back something like 20 generations. Some of those Ptolemies married native noblewomen, priestesses and princesses to solidify their shaky foreigner position by assimilating themselves into the Egyptian culture (and genepool )

Zulus are almost undoubtedly Shaka.

Every civ has had their CivII counterpart so far. It also looks as though they are trying to do away with the ficticious characters (Hippolyta, Ishtari, Amaterasu, Shakala, etc.)

While the German pic appears to say "Bismarck von Otto," I believe this is a renaming joke, and the leader is Frederick. Barbarossa this time, not kooky Frederick II like CivII. Besides, CTP used Bismarck, and using it in CivIII would be copying. (Like CTP did to CivII), and Firaxis wouldn't sink to...sigh...Activision's level.

Any further thoughts? What about UUs and special abilities?

	11-08-2001 09:28									#29
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Here are some images of Persian kings that I dug up. I suppose we can expect the animation to look like these if they don't try to model them after some Arab kook.

Darius (white crown and dark brown beard)

Xerxes (gold crown and purple beard [don;t ask me why -- the coloring of the picture is a little weird])

Darius is in council with is advisors, Xerxes is communing with his prime minister, the infamous Haman. Both Kings are the individuals on the right of the pictures.

***********************
Alas, I don't have as much computer savvy as I would like, so I was only able to post Darius in this message. I shall put on Xerxes in a moment.

Attachment: darius i.jpg
This has been downloaded 178 time(s).

	11-08-2001 09:32									#30
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Here is Xerxes.

Attachment: xerxes i.jpg
This has been downloaded 171 time(s).