15-08-2001 08:52									#91
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Its nice to see Ribannah's tech tree, and her complete deconstruction of the tech tree. That will make a good mod someday, no doubt. But I think what may be more useful at this point would be trying to figure out the absolute must change items in linking techs to each other. They certainly aren't going to add or remove or rename anything at this point, but if we point out things like Comrade Tribune's noticing of a redunacy, that kind of thing could still be changed in a late-alpha or early beta stage.

If you were limited to suggesting no more than 5 changes to the links between the techs, what would they be? Personally, I think the Industrial Age is the most messed up. Industrialization should be a key tech, instead of Steam Engine, which should just lead up to it, and not to separate branches. The way it is now, you can go all the way to Replacable Parts, Electronics and Radio without discovering Industrialization. Also Flight without discovering Electricity. And the only link to the next age is Advanced Flight. Very strange.

In the Modern Age, one of the most egregious mistakes is no connection between Space Flight and Computers, or Computers and Nuclear Power for that matter. There is no way one could have the Apollo Program or build a nuclear power plant without computers.

In the Middle Ages, Theology leads to just about all the more advanced techs from that point? Please.

A comment was made earlier that the tech tree may not be that accurate, but it was made for playability. I disagree that these two things are mutually exclusive. Its harder, but possible to have the tech tree (and other parts of the game for that matter) BOTH historically honest AND fun and playable. It takes more work, but that's what these guys should be doing.

Also, I sincerely hope that mod makers will be able to edit these tech tree charts, moving them around as we like, and adding and removing at well. That would be a wonderous improvement over Civ2, where one has to pore over readme files to understand the general structure of mods and scenarios.

	15-08-2001 09:09									#92
	Tired of ads?

perhaps satellites is a prerequisite for an integrated defense because you could simply steal the smart weapons tech w/o having researched satellites. btw, it's nice to know that you all have so much faith in the design team, i think some of you guys should research the lover tech before screaming your heads off that such and such a feature will screw up the entire game - excuse us while we pander to the needs of one won't you?

	15-08-2001 10:34									#93
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok, after getting my initial reaction from viewing the tech tree, reading most everyone's posts, and scanning the tech tree again, I can only say that I agree with those who say it is too sparse/generic and that it has some bizarre flaws.

You would think that, after two iterations of the same game and countless feed back, those developing the Civ3 tech tree would finally get it right. I understand that not everyone will ever be satisfied, but please . . .

I will not reiterate some of the things that have already been mentioned, but I will say this:

LISTEN TO HARLAN. He knows what he's talking about. He along with several others have worked countless hours on developing a working, historically accurate tech tree for CtP2.

Oh, and did I say FUN? Yes, you can have a historically accurate and full tech tree and still have fun.

As Harlan said, I sincerely hope that it is a very simple matter to modify the tech tree to our liking. I really hope they've made a very versatile editor.

	15-08-2001 10:39									#94
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Harlan A comment was made earlier that the tech tree may not be that accurate, but it was made for playability. I disagree that these two things are mutually exclusive. Its harder, but possible to have the tech tree (and other parts of the game for that matter) BOTH historically honest AND fun and playable. It takes more work, but that's what these guys should be doing.

PRECISELY The two things are NOT mutually exclusive. You can have a historical AND fun tech tree.

. . . 'nough said . . .

	15-08-2001 10:45									#95
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with Harlan that the Industrial Age tree is the most messed up.

	15-08-2001 12:18									#96
	Tired of ads?

Always disliked that the iron clad played such a larger role in CivII and the Frigate was (nearly) useless. Found it funny you you navy technologically could upgrade from caravel to iron clad, skipping the frigate and gallon all together.

Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how the tree "feels" in the game...