24-08-2000 00:27									#1
	Apolyton's "Great Library" Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am asking if we can organise the vast amount of knowledge that this site has generated about Civ 2 into a better reference format.

At present we have to trawl the archives to hunt for relevant threads. When a topic is located there may only be a few postings of any value. At the start of the year, Inca made a valiant attempt at trying to produce a thread of distilled wisdom. This never really worked as too many aspects were being discussed under one heading. The wisdom became diluted - not distilled - and the idea slipped away.

My proposals are as follows:

1) The currently under used Civ 2 "Help" section be transformed into a reference section.

2) This would consist of locked threads only. Many examples spring to mind as I write.
Paul's OCC Guide
Dave V on his approach to ICS
William Keenan's Paper on Barbarians
The information on Spaceship times/configurations
Oedo's discovery on the years for revolutions without anarchy
Xin's analysis of approaches to the game, covering the three main strategies of money/science/shields. (I can't tell you the thread he wrote this into …… see my point!)
My apologies if I have not included your wisdom! There are many more not mentioned.

3) Any poster would be at liberty to write a piece on an aspect of the game, they believe they know well. Initially, a draft form for discussion would be launched in the strategy section. (The vet civvers on the site will soon spot incomplete or wrong information.) The author would then be encouraged to amend the work with the correct information. Then, subject to the approval of Ming the Moderator, the thread would be entered into the Great Library/Reference Section or whatever we wish to call it.
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SG (2)

	24-08-2000 05:05									#2
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Damn fine idea, SG2, as always. Your blood, as they say, is worth bottling. Wouldn't hurt to lump together the various Tips For MP Newbies (including the need for ICQ, etc) threads and adding to the list.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	24-08-2000 07:15									#3
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Are the Posters on this Forum just too cool and creative, or what! Wonderful, splendid idea!!! Hmmmm....it would need a dedicated vet-civ moderator....someone who really believes in the idea...someone to translate Brit slang...someone like...SCOUSE GITS and SCOUSE GITS 2! (you needed to replace the Prince title anyway!

Edit - add SG2 cause I didn't read the post carefully enough!
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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese
[This message has been edited by MacUser (edited August 23, 2000).]

	24-08-2000 07:23									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think the rest of us were keeping our mouths shut until someone else was nominated for the job.

Great idea. The new sticky thread option will allow those types of loacked threads to be readily available in the "help" section of the forum.

	25-08-2000 20:40									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well, since I have experience and a good start on the task of building a distilled CivII reference thread, I'd have no problem volunteering to be the "Apolyton CivII Librarian." Certain catagories for the Library would be necessary to allow better presentation of the information. Topics such as OCC, ICS, SSC, The Space Race, Trade, PBEM, Cheats, etc would be a good beginning. Care must be taken in posting papers written by non-Apolytoners to ensure that credit is given where credit is due. I chose not to post a good paper on warfare entitled "Fire!" , because I could not track down the author to get his permission. I propose that the current Distilled Tips thread first be rewritten and better catagorized. Then suggestions gathered for other topics to be added in the Library. A draft can then be written for new submissions and the draft posted and reviewed prior to its insertion into the Library. I have bumped the Distilled Tips thread so it can be more easily reviewed. Any other suggestions or comments?

	25-08-2000 20:48									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I will bring the idea to MarkG and DanQ and see what they think. Maybe the Civ Help Forum is the right place, or maybe a dedicated forum under the Civ Section would work also. I'll see what they think.

Heck, I'll even update my cheat write up for inclusion

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	25-08-2000 22:14									#7
	Tired of ads?

Edit - this paper is not in the Apolyton hints and tips section...my bad! I'll try to rewrite it anyway or maybe just post parts of it on this board for critique.


inca911 - the Fire! paper is already available (wrong!) in the Apolyton long tips section - but it is so rife with errors and bad strategy that it really needs to be re-written. I am bored at work today, maybe I can have a go. That whole section, by the way, has a bunch of really bad strategy pieces, maybe we should just re-write all of them or look to publish our finished result there as an accurate piece. Or at least add reviews or comments on their errors...
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited August 25, 2000).]

	26-08-2000 02:04									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks Ming! I too believe that this really needs doing and will volunteer for some light work if that helps.


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

	26-08-2000 13:45									#9
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Excellent idea SG,

BTW The "Fire" paper was written by Marc Fisher.
The original e-mail adress I found is mfisher@mail.cjnetworks.com.
I don't know if he still uses this adress

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Adopt, Adapt and Improve

	27-08-2000 09:53									#10
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I have a mini-strategy that might be useful.
1. You attack an ai.
2. Once you conquer a city, they ask for a treaty, and you accept. Then, on their turn, they can't attack you. (unless they sneak attack, which they usually don't do until 3 or 4 turns into the treaty.)
3. Then, on your turn, you demand things, and ask them to withdraw troops. They declare war, you attack, and conquer a city.
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until the evil ai despot is vanquished.
[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited August 26, 2000).]

	26-08-2000 22:53									#11
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Against the AI, you can do a lot more than you can against a real person

	27-08-2000 02:14									#12
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That's because they are so dumb.

quote: the evil ai despot

BTW, Ming, is this a sticky thread? If not, please make it one.
By the way, I love the smily. That's why I use it so much.
[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited August 26, 2000).]

	28-08-2000 22:12									#13
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sounds wonderfull!

feel free to do it!
just tell me what you'll need from me...

	29-08-2000 05:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks Mark!

I think we need a section where we can have only locked threads - once the advice/wisdom has generally been agreed by the experienced players. (I can hear Ming saying "Case Closed!" - if you see what I mean!) If posters wish to submit a paper, they would first publish it on the Strategy Section for all to discuss the work.

My first thought was to use the Civ 2 Help section - which does not seem to have much traffic. However, you and Dan may think that a new Reference Section is a better idea. In short, we need a library to store the information.

Once this space is provided - we can start work.

These are only my thoughts. I am sure that those interested in the concept will add to the discussion.

Things are moving!

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SG (2)

	29-08-2000 09:09									#15
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Yeah... let's all discuss what might work best. Because once we "charge" ahead, it will be difficult to change.

So let's hear peoples ideas!!!!!!

(and thanks for your support MarkG)



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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	29-08-2000 14:12									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

OK - I'll make a start (I should add that I haven't discussed this with SG2 and this is simply my own vision) ...
How about a 'Great Library' page indexed under the 'Strategy' flag on the left hand menu. This page would contain an index of bookmarks to short (150 word?) concept summaries that would have a link to the definitive document (such as Paul's OCC guide - although I feel that Apolyton should hold a copy if only for back-up)
As for the 'editorial' process the strategy forum seems to be the right place, but some kind of flag perhaps in the thread title ie GL Proposal - How to kill the AI would certainly help - I would suggest perhaps some kind of general free for all in the initial stages and then a slightly more formal editorial process from a designated panel before acceptance and entry into the Library.
Well that was my three ha'p'orth - any improvements??


P.S. added in edit - MacUser only another 73 needed for that new title anyway! [and noone can accuse us of spamming when I use Edit to say this rather than another post!!]
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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited August 29, 2000).]

	30-08-2000 04:37									#17
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I have an idea. Each paper should be called a scroll of ancient wisdom.

	30-08-2000 06:58									#18
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Excuse my interjection on this topic, but I felt I had something valuable to add. My experience working on the Scenario League team and as Webmaster of the Cradle of Civilization has taught me a few things about how to make a successfull civ website.

IMHO, there are three important elements required; who (webmaster), what (content), and where (hosting). It seems that the what and the where are crystal clear, the content is civ stratagy and Apolyton is the host. What is not clear is the who. The webmaster is a critical element. He or she must be Internet savy, artistically inclined, and passionate about the topic matter. As soon as the webmaster has been identified all the other details will fall into place.
[This message has been edited by William Keenan (edited August 29, 2000).]

	01-09-2000 03:04									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I put in an official petition to make this a sticky thread. Who is with me?
[RANT]BECAUSE I DEMAND TO KNOW WHY THIS THREAD WAS 3/4S OF THE WAY DOWN THE PAGE!!![/RANT]

[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited August 31, 2000).]

	01-09-2000 14:35									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In fairness, Silver, if the thread drops off the sheet maybe the idea isn't viable - but as it is (viable) it won't (drop off the sheet) will it?
As for your idea of Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom - I think it excellent, but would not like to put Mr. Winkler's nose out of joint - he did get there first with an excellent page information albeit there has been some nibbling around the edges of its accuracy it is still sound general background and guidelines for the game.
See my new sig...


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	02-09-2000 02:20									#21
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Oops. Didn't know somebody beat me to the idea.

	03-09-2000 01:43									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

just to be sure, the thread is now top-ed

	03-09-2000 01:46									#23
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There should be a glossary of some kind. Perhaps key words and phrases could be automatically linked to the glosssary.

	04-09-2000 06:01									#24
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If the topic is to be composed with only locked threads than there should be one thread that is unlocked, the Suggestion Box. There should be a template at the top of the page for people to follow like:

Name:

Rating of Library 1-5 (5 being the highest ):

Sugestion(s)/Comment(s):


Also don't forget credits!



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"Freedom, Trade, Christantine!"

	06-09-2000 01:15									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

MY WAY TO CHEAT WITHOUT THE "Cheat mode" LABEL APPEARING ON THE SCORE.(however, the scenario label appears)

	06-09-2000 03:21									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It isn't your way. Everyone knows how to do that.
[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited September 06, 2000).]

	06-09-2000 14:05									#27
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As SG2 says in the opening post of this thread there are clearly some instant candidates for inclusion in the Great Library of Apolyton - but what else should go in - any suggestions? Should I start a new thread for proposed contents?

Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	06-09-2000 17:38									#28
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I have a bunch of informatoin in my Distilled Civ Tips and Notes thread that you might want to review. Also add Oedo's Revolution Years as well.

	07-09-2000 15:40									#29
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Inca - most certainly agree with both of those. I would add
- a definitive Glossary and Acronym article
- the uses of the Super Iron Clad
- and has anyone ever done a piece on Perfectionist Strategy? I don't recall seeing one - any volunteers??

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

	08-09-2000 02:27									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I used to do a perfectionist style play. I dont remember how I did anything at all anymore. Sorry. Its just since coming to Apolyton I changed my ways.

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What if the Hokey-Pokey is really what its all about?

Contact me at cpoland@mail.win.org