18-10-2001 21:19									#61
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Sorry, but I think it's retarded to included every single little country. In the whole scope of the war, it boils down to Allies and Soviets vs Axis. I'm not saying countries like Denmark, Belgium, or Sweden didn't play important roles, but for the sake of gameplay, why clog up the game with extra AI's that for the most part won't have the power to be effective?

Sure, Poland did its part, but they got blitzkrieged. So they are basically useless as a controlable Civ in a WWII scenario. It would be really dumb if you could play as the Poles and attack the Germans before the blitzkrieg.

I'm glad that Firaxis and/or experienced modmakers will be making these scenarios and not the general Apolyton public. Gameplay must be the top priority in such a scenario. These should be the only playable civs.

US
Britain
Germany
Italy
Japan
Soviet Union

And for gameplay sake I would combine US and Britain, and Germany and Italy. I know that Britain fought long before the US got involved after Pearl Harbor, but it would be stupid to be playing as Britain and waiting for some bug-ridden AI to attack the Nazis.

	19-10-2001 00:57									#62
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It is a game, man!
If you're smart you could save Poland or France to be blietzkrieged. You know, to change the fate...
Unfortunately, you present typicall Anglo-Saxon view on history...

	19-10-2001 01:48									#63
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse "Blitzkrieg" can refer to all of Hitler's major surprise engagements (Poland, France, Russia, etc.), though the "Blitz" is usually reserved for the bombing raids on London.

Thats what I said, wasn't it?

	19-10-2001 02:13									#64
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i think it would be important to have most of the 'Minor' countries in the War for Replayability, What if Poland gave Germany Danzig?, gave Germany 'Right of passage' and helped with the War against Russia.
What if the Polish held on long enough for the French to launch an Offensive while German troops are held up in Poland

Stop thinking Civ2 and start thinking Civ3, new diplomacy, start in 1938, What if there was no German-Russian pact, What if What if...... thats what its all about, I know scenarios are for real Historic events but this is a game about Alt History not Actual History, What if Germany and Britain joined forces, the largest Navy with the Best equipped Army?

	19-10-2001 02:34									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Thats what I said, wasn't it?

Sort of...I just wanted to point out that referring to the blitz on France is an acceptable mode of speech.

	19-10-2001 22:56									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Col Bigspear i think it would be important to have most of the 'Minor' countries in the War for Replayability, What if Poland gave Germany Danzig?, gave Germany 'Right of passage' and helped with the War against Russia. What if the Polish held on long enough for the French to launch an Offensive while German troops are held up in Poland Stop thinking Civ2 and start thinking Civ3, new diplomacy, start in 1938, What if there was no German-Russian pact, What if What if...... thats what its all about, I know scenarios are for real Historic events but this is a game about Alt History not Actual History, What if Germany and Britain joined forces, the largest Navy with the Best equipped Army?

Yes, man it is what I wanted to write!!!
I give you my 1/8 of Polish soul and you are 3/8 Pole now!

	19-10-2001 23:19									#67
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Sort of...I just wanted to point out that referring to the blitz on France is an acceptable mode of speech.

Well, saying I blitzed my room is an acceptable phrase, meaning I tidied it in an inordinately short amount of time.

I would summise that the without explicit clarification the reference to London is implicit

	19-10-2001 23:23									#68
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quote: Stop thinking Civ2 and start thinking Civ3, new diplomacy, start in 1938, What if there was no German-Russian pact, What if What if...... thats what its all about, I know scenarios are for real Historic events but this is a game about Alt History not Actual History, What if Germany and Britain joined forces, the largest Navy with the Best equipped Army

I often thought about that, but with respect to WW1. For centuries Germanic nations and England were opposed against the French. Then it al changed... what if it hadn't.

I think our perceiving the Germans as a greater threat than France shows how the French power and declined in the 19th Century, relatively speaking.

	20-10-2001 00:39									#69
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Excellent, but it is not a WWII scenario now...

	20-10-2001 03:15									#70
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From the looks of it we'll have more than our fair share of WW2 scenarios to choose from

How about unique units? Will you be giving patton and monty their own units to be included in armies? Will you be letting the russian build superfast T......(52?)s? I'm glad the default graphic for armour seems to be shermans, you won't have to change much for allied tanks.

	20-10-2001 12:48									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba How about unique units?

Depends on which countires are in the scenario.
If May 1940...

Soviet union: T-34
Finland: Finnish infantry
German Reich: Junkers 75B or Messerschmitt 262 (my favourite)
Italy: Bersigleri partisans
Yugoslavia: Yugoslavian infantry
Greece: Greek infantry
France: Renault ...
UK: Supermarine Spitfire
USA: North American P-51 B-15 Mustang

	20-10-2001 12:50									#72
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quote: Originally posted by pithorr Excellent, but it is not a WWII scenario now...

Well, let's make a Great War scenario too.
I'll start a new thread on that.

	20-10-2001 20:19									#73
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quote: How about unique units? France: Renault ...

Createur d'automobiles.



At least say you are refering to a Renault tank.

	20-10-2001 20:47									#74
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Just want to remind everyone that each civ can have as many UUs as you want them to have. That way Germany can have several Panzers and Tigers, Russia can have their big ass tanks and the Americans could have Bazookas along with Shermans. Maybe you can even set up special strengths or weaknesses, like bazookas can do more damage to a tank, akin to the pikemen bonus against horses. Food for thought.

	21-10-2001 00:43									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch At least say you are refering to a Renault tank.

Yeap. Can't remember the name of that "little" tank.

	21-10-2001 01:04									#76
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Just want to remind everyone that each civ can have as many UUs as you want them to have.

...and that's the good part with the UU editing.

quote: That way Germany can have several Panzers and Tigers, Russia can have their big ass tanks

Germany:
Tiger II
Maus

France:
Renault ... (I'll try to find the whole name)

UK:
Sherman
Achilles

Soviet union:
BT-7 ( 80 kmph max speed )
T-34

To be added later: Italy and USA.

	21-10-2001 01:26									#77
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UUs. There shouldnt be too many or else balancing will be hard

Germany: Panzer (encompasses Tiger, Mark, Panther etc etc)
United Kingdom: Dominion Infantry (Comprised of Aussies, NZ, the toughest infantry in the world after the Americans, Finns, and Ivan )
United States of America: B-17 bomber (only country in the world with good heavy bombers)
France: Partisans (vive la Resistance!)
Soviet Union: T-34 (about equal with Panzer)
Italy: Underwater Chariots (a torpedo with 2 frogmen on bord who drive it underwater and steer it towards a ship (these Italians were so pathetic inthe 20th Century that they lost to an Abyssinian Army whose most sophisticated weapong was the spear. This is the only example in history where a modern army has lost to a primitive one)
Turks: None
Norway: None
Finland: Alpine Troops (same as in civ2 but with a higher attack)
Belgium: None
The Netherlands: Flood Troops (Flood 3/4 of the country to protect the other 1/4) No actually I don't know
Yugoslavia: None
Sweden: None
Spain:None
Portugal: None
Switzerland: Citizen Army (strong on defense)

	21-10-2001 02:22									#78
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Lawrence ,

what about Greece?
Greece defeated the Italians in WW2 and after the Soviet Union had one of the biggest sacrifices in the fight for democracy. I think it deserves a mention.

Or is it with the Allies all together?

About UU I'd say either greek infantry OR greek submarines. They had a record breaking number of sinking italian subs.

	21-10-2001 03:47									#79
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quote: what about Greece?

I think it will be with the United Kingdom along with Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Arabia, India.

	21-10-2001 04:33									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Soviet Union: T-34 (about equal with Panzer)

Come on! This is the Soviet Union we're talking about!

	21-10-2001 08:17									#81
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quote: Come on! This is the Soviet Union we're talking about!

Your right

The T-34 has a reduced range since its crew is always piss drunk with the vodka. They can't aim straight any more

	21-10-2001 09:26									#82
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Actually, it would be more powerful. Soviet tanks were the strongest and most armored tanks, the problem was cranking the puppies out, poor tactics, and hardly any lower level control of forces. Way I see it, German tanks on average should get movement bonuses to simulate blitzkrieg, American tanks should be less expensive, French tanks should have higher defense but lower movement (one man tanks are not effective), and Soviet tanks should be more expensive but have higher attack values. My two cents.

	21-10-2001 14:11									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia UUs. There shouldnt be too many or else balancing will be hard Germany: Panzer (encompasses Tiger, Mark, Panther etc etc)

That's not a good solution.
The German should have one tank
as UU; the Tiger I or Tiger II (Königtiger).

quote: Finland: Alpine Troops (same as in civ2 but with a higher attack)

Finland didn't have any alpine troops;
the UU should be Finnish infantry or
Bristol Blenheim IV.

	21-10-2001 14:21									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Come on! This is the Soviet Union we're talking about!

The T-34 was a good tank, if you compare to
many US tanks in WWII. Anyway, the T-34 deserves
its UU status in that scenario.

	21-10-2001 14:27									#85
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Actually, it would be more powerful. Soviet tanks were the strongest and most armored tanks, the problem was cranking the puppies out, poor tactics, and hardly any lower level control of forces.

You have a clue in that. The Soviet union had
quite large variety of tanks; BT-7 to KV-I.
They had tanks for almost everything, but the
German panzerwagens were better in many
ways. The largest and strongest tanks were German,
not Russian. Tiger I, Tiger II, Maus,...

	21-10-2001 16:31									#86
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I think the French should have "Maginot Line troops" as its UU. Its traits being:

High production cost
High maintenance cost (approx 80% of defence budget)
Reduced manouvrebility (fixed positions ideally)
Low attack value (maybe just the ability to bombard)

However, it would have an inordinately high defence value, provided it was attacked from the east and not ambushed from the west.

	21-10-2001 20:56									#87
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quote: That's not a good solution. The German should have one tank as UU;.

The Panzer is one tank. I just said that it encompasses all those other tanks, so it should represent their strengths.

	21-10-2001 23:56									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia The Panzer is one tank. I just said that it encompasses all those other tanks, so it should represent their strengths.

I know that you ment that, but I think it's
better to have one specific tank, and not to
combine all to a single "Panzer".
It's ridiculous: PzIA and Maus in a single package.
It almost makes me laugh.

	22-10-2001 00:03									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I think the French should have "Maginot Line troops" as its UU.

But the French could move them arround
(unless movement points are set to zero),
and that would spoil the whole idea.

	22-10-2001 00:43									#90
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quote: I think the French should have "Maginot Line troops" as its UU.

Partisans are better. The Maginot Line troops were old geezers who werent fit for front line duty